tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12179742331967721572024-03-13T19:54:42.537-07:00Instant SingularityIronMan79http://www.blogger.com/profile/11117778458579053062noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1217974233196772157.post-31814040005035155362012-12-06T02:18:00.001-08:002012-12-06T02:18:34.120-08:00The Laws of LawsSkip to content<br /><br /> Board index ‹ Philosophy Forums ‹ Philosophy<br /><br /> Print view<br /><br /> FAQ<br /> Register<br /> Login<br /><br /> View unanswered posts • View active topics<br /><br />The Laws of Laws<br /><br />Moderators: Only_Humean, Staff<br />Forum rules<br />Forum Philosophy<br />Post a reply<br />10 posts • Page 1 of 1<br />The Laws of Laws<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:27 am<br />The Laws of Laws<br /><br />What are the general Laws of "Laws" themselves ? They are repetitive, can be applied again and again in different situations and things behave similarly (the same?), but then do they always imply time and space ? do you need a memory to remember that the laws are the same and repetitive ?<br /><br />The Laws of how Laws are constructed are mostly the Laws of how a Processor, Observer decodes an input according to the laws fixed within the Decoder, Processor, Observer, in short, the Man Brain. Change the way the Brain is set up and you change the very essence of Laws themselves, you deconstruct and tear apart laws the themselves, the Laws of Physics couldn't exist if you didn't already have the concept of Laws already present in your narrative, discourse, in your Mind, etc.<br /><br />But the Laws of Laws themself are Arbitrary, as usual, and even the Laws of the Laws of Laws, and the Laws of Change, etc. All arbitrary repetitive, recursive patterns that make sense to something that decided what patterns were in the first place, that hard wired them as Absolute invariants otherwise it couldn't work at all, couldn't even notice "Laws" at all, decode them or work at all...<br /><br />I AM THE OVERMAN (as imagined by Frank Zappa).<br /><br />12-21-2012 12:1212121212 .... pm THE END IS NEAR<br /><br />As in Free Physics...<br /><br />viewtopic.php?f=4&t=179812<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: The Laws of Laws<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:36 am<br />Taken from:<br /><br />http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/10/snake-garden.html<br /><br /><br />From:<br /><br />http://instantsingularity3.blogspot.it<br /><br />http://instantsingularity1.blogspot.it<br /><br />Author Profile Page tegmark | October 25, 2012 6:42 AM | Reply<br /><br />and<br /><br />http://instantsingularity.blogspot.it<br /><br /><br />THE APE MAN, THE 8 MEN...<br /><br />TOBOR SPEAKING<br /><br /><br /><br />For a complete list of books by James Howard Kunstler and purchase links, click here.<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: The Laws of Laws<br /><br />Postby James S Saint » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:37 pm<br />Laws are formed from Consistencies. It doesn't matter who or what observed or deduced them.<br />Clarify, Verify, and Instill the Perception of Hopes and Threats that Optimize the Momentum of Inclusive Self-Harmony :)<br />Else<br />From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.<br /><br />The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.<br /><br />Respect the morons.<br />We are all there is.<br /><br />What you don't see is what you fall into.<br /><br />James S Saint<br /> ILP Legend<br /> <br /> Posts: 7943<br /> Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm<br /><br />Top<br />Re: The Laws of Laws<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:54 pm<br /><br /> James S Saint wrote:Laws are formed from Consistencies. It doesn't matter who or what observed or deduced them.<br /><br /><br /><br />yeah, new words, new old stuff, already said, saying the same old things with new symbols and such, the identity principle and such, I am at a much higher abstraction level, the Laws of Laws are way beyond what you think I am talking about, I am already past logic, at a higher dimension, a higher state, but you just use puny logic over and over again, kill logic, kill reasoning, kill truth, I win forever...<br /><br />Memory Kills the Future<br /><br />Everything has been invented and done, now we have a huge memory of all past inventions and things, nothing is left to do. Everything is already heard, everything discovered, nothing is left, we must erase all of the past memory of all knowledge and science and invent things all over again forever and then forget all over again: case in point, the generation that lived before WW 2 was kind of cancelled by the war, a new generation came and invented Rock music (why can't a new band like the Beatles come again ? because it has been done, no young group can invent all the novelty all over again, same for Woodstock, counterculture and all such), and then the invention of the Microprocessor and so many new things, a young generation had all of those possible inventions waiting, now it has all been done, we are at the end of the road, all is memorized in the internet, all is finished, erase the memory, start all over again, the memory blocks creativity, the young can't invent everything all over again, they are condemned to do nothing for the rest of their lives, it is all over, (playing with smart phones is an example of a peaked society and culture, it is all old stuff being done over and over again, the camera, the blogs, whatever), science too as a memory device, the internet as a memory device making everyone idle since it all has been done.<br /><br />I have explained all of philosophy once and for all on my posts, now it is all over, there is nothing left to invent, hence we must erase all, free all memories from the past, forget the past, and do it all over again forever, no cultural stimulus when you already heard that music and read those ideas and such, so kill memory, invent all new things, forget all, forgetting will set the young free to repeat all over again, all the"old" new things, etc.<br /><br />That is why only devastating and changing the Brain Circuits is the only real novelty left, nothing else is left, change the Brain circuits and you really create infinite novelties forever...<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: The Laws of Laws<br /><br />Postby finishedman » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:17 pm<br />I understand your problem. The actions of life are outside the field of thought. Life is simply a process of stimulus and response; and stimulus and response are one unitary movement. But it is thought that separates them and says that this is the response and that is the stimulus. Any action that is born out of thinking is destructive in its nature because thought is a self-perpetuating mechanism. Any action that is outside the field of thought is one continuous movement. It is one with the movement of life. It is that flow of things. You don't even have to paddle out of the mainstream on to the banks there. But there is fear of sinking in it.<br /><br />If energy is not wasted in pursuit of some certainties offered to us, life becomes very simple. But we end up being wasted, misled and misspent individuals. If that energy is released, what is it that we can't do to survive in the midst of these complexities of the world created by our culture? It is very simple. The attempt to sidestep these complexities is the very thing that is causing us all these problems.<br /><br />That energy is something which cannot be defined and which cannot be understood. The moment the dead thought tries to capture that energy, thought is destroyed. Thought is matter. The moment it is created, it has to be destroyed. But that is the very thing that we resist. Thought is born and is destroyed, and again it is born and again it is destroyed. The only way you can give continuity to thought is through this constant demand to experience everything. This is the only way you try to maintain the continuity of the `experiencing structure'.<br />Without knowledge you can't experience anything. What you do not know, you cannot experience. It is the knowledge that creates the experience, and it is the experience that strengthens the knowledge. At every moment of our existence, we have to know what is happening outside of us and what is happening inside of us. That is the only way you can maintain this continuity.<br /><br />Coming back to what you said earlier about rejecting the whole past - the experiences, thoughts and everything.... It’s not something that you can do through any effort, will or volition of yours. It's a miracle. That happens to you despite everything you do. Everything you do only blocks it. It prevents the possibility of whatever is there to express itself. Not that you have gained anything. Only what is there is able to express itself without any hindrance, without any constraints or restraints imposed on it by society for its own reasons, for its own continuity and stability.<br /><br />finishedman<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 2733<br /> Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:32 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: The Laws of Laws<br /><br />Postby The Idiot » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:44 pm<br /><br /> finishedman wrote:I understand your problem. The actions of life are outside the field of thought. Life is simply a process of stimulus and response; and stimulus and response are one unitary movement. But it is thought that separates them and says that this is the response and that is the stimulus. Any action that is born out of thinking is destructive in its nature because thought is a self-perpetuating mechanism. Any action that is outside the field of thought is one continuous movement. It is one with the movement of life. It is that flow of things. You don't even have to paddle out of the mainstream on to the banks there. But there is fear of sinking in it.<br /><br /> If energy is not wasted in pursuit of some certainties offered to us, life becomes very simple. But we end up being wasted, misled and misspent individuals. If that energy is released, what is it that we can't do to survive in the midst of these complexities of the world created by our culture? It is very simple. The attempt to sidestep these complexities is the very thing that is causing us all these problems.<br /><br /> That energy is something which cannot be defined and which cannot be understood. The moment the dead thought tries to capture that energy, thought is destroyed. Thought is matter. The moment it is created, it has to be destroyed. But that is the very thing that we resist. Thought is born and is destroyed, and again it is born and again it is destroyed. The only way you can give continuity to thought is through this constant demand to experience everything. This is the only way you try to maintain the continuity of the `experiencing structure'.<br /> Without knowledge you can't experience anything. What you do not know, you cannot experience. It is the knowledge that creates the experience, and it is the experience that strengthens the knowledge. At every moment of our existence, we have to know what is happening outside of us and what is happening inside of us. That is the only way you can maintain this continuity.<br /><br /> Coming back to what you said earlier about rejecting the whole past - the experiences, thoughts and everything.... It’s not something that you can do through any effort, will or volition of yours. It's a miracle. That happens to you despite everything you do. Everything you do only blocks it. It prevents the possibility of whatever is there to express itself. Not that you have gained anything. Only what is there is able to express itself without any hindrance, without any constraints or restraints imposed on it by society for its own reasons, for its own continuity and stability.<br /><br /><br /><br />This is a bit off topic so I'm sorry (I'll get right back on topic) but are you familiar with the works of Krishnamurti? Whenever I read your posts I feel like your presentation and your thoughts themselves are quite in tune with that mans thoughts. I'm just curious.<br /><br />Now back on topic.<br /><br />You say that the actions of life are outside the field of thought. Can you relate this to Death? I mean that, if continuity of existence is dependent upon thought, but thought is always there (or always returns, rather) then what is the difference between "death" and death of thought? When thought stops. When thought completely stops, is that "death"? Is eternal life all there ever is? Is death just a "thought" itself?<br /><br />The Idiot<br /> <br /> Posts: 42<br /> Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:23 pm<br /><br />Top<br />Re: The Laws of Laws<br /><br />Postby finishedman » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:35 am<br />Your constant utilization of thought to give continuity to your separate self is 'you'. There is nothing there inside you other than that.<br /><br />You cannot measure anything unless you have a point. So, if the center is absent, there is no circumference at all. That is pure and simple basic arithmetic.<br />The subject does not exist there. It is the object that creates the subject. This runs counter to a lot of philosophical thinking. It is the object that creates the subject and not the subject that creates the object. This is a simple physiological phenomenon which can be tested. For example, if there is no object there, there is no subject here. What creates the subject is the object.<br /><br />There is light. If the light is not there you have no way of looking at anything. The light falls on that object, and the reflection of that light activates the optic nerves, which in turn activate the memory cells. When the memory cells are activated, all the knowledge you have about that object comes into cooperation. It is that process which is happening there that has created the subject. And the subject is the knowledge you have about it. When you reduce it to that you feel the absurdity of talking about the self -- the lower self, the higher self and self knowing, self-knowledge, knowing from moment to moment is nonsense. You can indulge in such and build up philosophical theories, but there is no subject there at all at any time. There is no subject creating the object.<br /><br />There is no permanent entity there at all. What is there (what you call "I") is only a first person singular pronoun. If you don't want to use that word "I" to prove that you are a man without "I", it is your privilege. That's all that is there. There is no permanent entity there at all.<br /><br />While you are living, the knowledge that is there does not belong to you. So, why are you concerned as to what will happen after what you call "you" is gone? The physical body is functioning from moment to moment because that is the way the sensory perceptions are. To talk of living from moment to moment, by creating a thought induced state of mind, has no meaning to me except in terms of the physical functioning of the body.<br /><br />finishedman<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 2733<br /> Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:32 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: The Laws of Laws<br /><br />Postby finishedman » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:34 am<br /><br /> When thought completely stops, is that "death"?<br /><br /><br />You cease to be.<br /><br /> Is eternal life all there ever is? <br /><br /><br />Mind is interested in creating an artificial immortality -- of an entity, soul, self, whatever you want to call it. It knows in a way that it is coming to an end somewhere along the line, and its survival, its continuity, its status quo depends upon the continuity of the body. But body is not in any way involved with the thought, because it has no beginning, it has no end. It is the thought that has created the two points -- this is the birth and that is the death.<br /><br /> Is death just a "thought" itself?<br /><br /><br />It is the thought that has created the body, and established a point and says it's born here, and is going to end there. So it is the thought that has created the time factor.<br /><br />finishedman<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 2733<br /> Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:32 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: The Laws of Laws<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:25 pm<br />From:<br /><br />http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/10/apocalyptoween.html<br /><br />The Future ...<br /><br />The myth of the future, the myth of destiny, you could have done this or that, if only, if only you did this you would be that or in another place, situation, whatever, etc. This myth is at the basis of all of the problems people force themselves to have (the logical mental problems a Man Brain forces itself to have according to models of cause and effect and control when 99 % of what happens is out of any control at all) the goal, the target, the success reached according to some model or whatever, but the truth is the future doesn't exist, it is not some metaphysical destiny that you could have achieved or should have achieved, the sequence of events that occur mostly just happen with no goal or control or model in mind, no matter how hard you try to control or force things to go in certain ways (the myth of science and finding out why and then how to control the future and such). So if the future doesn't exist and is random and without any control, then it isn't a model, there is nothing to regret or nothing to be sad about since you didn't reach the future you wanted, the future never existed in the first place if only as a figment of the imagination as a utopia as an imagined place that should have and could have been so and so and you could have reached it: nothing further from the truth, there is no future, there is no model, there is no control, there is no metaphysical external future waiting to be reached according to your effort and responsibility and such (but you are forced to think in these terms and force yourself to constantly fail because you didn't reach the fairy land, etc.).<br /><br />But this is due to the cause and effect and logical model of the world that works so well in so many instances, becoming a mental jail, everything is logical and under control but this control is an illusion, when you least expect it it will deny all of your intentions and hopes and models and since you can't accept that the model of the future was false and impossible to reach, since any and all futures are a wild guess, you blame yourself, you blame some logical consequence, you blame some control you missed, some bad choice you made (or all of the people stuff, she said, she did, he did, all of the family, emotional, career crap and such and blame him or her and lawyers and fights and politics etc.) and such.<br /><br />But just like god cannot be proven to exist or not exist, the question is in an eternal limbo, and just like it is impossible to pinpoint down what is relative and what is absolute, the same thing happens with all of the narrative of a life, how much control did you have, what could you have done, why didn't that great future occur, who is to blame, what bad choice I made (or someone else made, hence blame him or it or them, etc. and fight and wars and conflicts), if only, if only I could go back and such, it can never be known, it is just suggested, to torture you, to torture your mind with regret and killed hopes and bad choices and with future effort, a lot of effort to reach a future that is and will always be impossible to reach because it doesn't exist anywhere, it only exists the moment it occurs and only for a picosecond only to disappear again and remain in your memory (to keep on torturing you with its imaginary reality, when there is no reality behind anything that has happened, there is no past, another figment of the imagination, the past is just a random collection of bits in your memory in your man brain...), and what occurs moment by moment is so totally random and quirky and without any substance, reality, only a metaphysical invention that worrying about it, planning it, regretting it, projecting future goals is a joke on the mind always, is a joke to torture the mind that will always lose this chess game against god.<br /><br />But exactly because so many things work and are logical, we are full of perfect machines, perfect programs (like computer programs, predicting and controlling events in the future so perfectly) that we are fooled and induced into thinking that this control and projected future is real and possible and if something good doesn't happen it is our fault since we didn't control or predict well enough and such, and we must regret a bad choice, a bad sequence of events we could have controlled and such. Nothing further from the truth, we can control a lot of things but only up to the point that random events and forces allow us to go, then pure nothing and randomness and pure blind chance will decide for us but leave us tortured and always finding something that should have been but didn't come to be, something or someone to blame, even yourself, mostly yourself, and some further study and investigation, and further research and science to allow us to control something that doesn't exist and will never exist, namely the future, the ghost of an imagined future that can be reached by imagined controls but always a total falsification of reality, as reality doesn't exist, models don't exist, we are constantly being taken for a ride by god, physics, (and the huge success we have ha in controlling a lot of things, but not everything and that is where we always fail) the principles of non contradiction, the identity principles always making us believe in this crap of logic and control and prediction only to hose you when you least expect it etc.<br /><br />Like the news and newspapers TV, some new catastrophe to worry about, (some new challenges some new bad news to torture you, some new problem, some new threats, constant threats all over the place on any issue) you have to take sides and win or lose, always new news and new problems and new frustration and new impossible problems to solve and such, there is always something new to torture you, some new conflict, some new problem, the entire idea of problems means that there are solutions, but this is false, almost all problems are without any solution since they can only be solved politically, by social consent, but no two people will ever agree on anything, as man is conflict, fight, is conflicting will powers always and such...<br /><br />Like Global Warming: it can't be demonstrated precisely (because the laws of physics make believe they are precise but they are a hoax, the three body problem can't be solved, hence there are no laws of physics to start with), but it is a possibility, it is suggested that we are wrecking the climate, hence something or someone to blame for the NYC storm and such...<br /><br />Always these undecided situations, everything is a joke on us, does god exist yes or no ? did you control your future and are you to blame for what happened yes or no ? did you kill the climate by driving yes or no ? and so forth, all undecided, all suggested: the truth is all of these problems aren't problems in the first place because they have no solutions to begin with (or impossible solutions like the whole world stops industrial production and car driving and such, totally insane solutions), they are false problems so don't think about anything anymore, who cares what happens, we are hosed anyways in the end, the future doesn't exist, the past doesn't exist, what happens is pure blind chance, and I am not feeling very well myself anyways...<br /><br />The future as some external picture outside waiting to happen (or as things happened as we wished but we can't have a part in that imaginary movie), the picture as something that exists and is real, there is no external picture or metaphysical place where the events are playing out as we imagine, there is no future ...<br /><br />I AM THE OVERMAN (as imagined by Frank Zappa).<br /><br />12-21-2012 12:1212121212 .... pm THE END IS NEAR<br /><br />As in Free Physics...<br /><br />viewtopic.php?f=4&t=179812<br /><br />nameta9<br />Philosopher<br /><br />Posts: 1621<br />Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: The Laws of Laws<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:28 pm<br />http://instantsingularity3.blogspot.it/<br /><br />http://instantsingularity1.blogspot.it/<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Display posts from previous: Sort by<br />Post a reply<br />10 posts • Page 1 of 1<br /><br />Return to Philosophy<br /><br /><br />Who is online<br /><br />Users browsing this forum: No registered users<br /><br /> Board index<br /> The team • Delete all board cookies • All times are UTC [ DST ]<br /><br />Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group<br />IronMan79http://www.blogger.com/profile/11117778458579053062noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1217974233196772157.post-47732208232653141552012-12-06T02:15:00.001-08:002012-12-06T02:15:01.567-08:00Free Physics (like Free Jazz)Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Up until now our civilization has always found the "discovery process", the "scientific enquiry process" the most important to "advance", but this is over now, most of what had to be discovered has been discovered, there will be very few really new breakthroughs in Science and Technology in the future, so we must completely change our paradigm, our way of doing things.<br /><br />We must free ourselves from being slaves to what Nature and the Laws of Physics dealt us, WE MUST ENTER THE AGE OF PURE INVENTION, WE MUST CREATE NEW WORLDS, CREAT NEW LAWS, WE MUST NO LONGER BE SLAVES TO THE TRUTH, ETC. We must stop trying to discover Objective Truths but invent Subjective False Truths, we must worship Lies, we must worship total falsification of reality and all, invent fake worlds and live in them, be crazy to the utmost extent.<br /><br />What happens in the "Black Hole" where the Laws of Physics no longer operate ? Well Free Physics, all kinds of incredible, insane laws are operating, all things are mixed and true and false, everything is related to everything else through everything else and also disjoint and unrelated, all time is confused, all points in space are mixed up, everything is the cause of everything else and at the same time is composed of everything else and at the same time not composed of everything else and ever so more, more and more wacky relationships, make your mind go crazy, like a pebble and a cloud are the cause of a transistor and the electrons flowing in the transistor are little Suns, but at the same time the cause of the Sun in the transistor came from a car tire on a random car, but no, it is the other way around, and you can have circular time so everything causes everything else (and the set of pictures, of transitions of one Matter configuration to another Matter configuration can go through many trillions of intermediate pictures, but also just one, or minus a trillion or all of the pictures are confused and all cause and effect is deconstructed and reconstructed wrongly and all messed up and so on and such), but was also caused by everything else in cycles going back and forth, and time going crazy and all points in space connected and disconnected and all delimitations as one monolithic block, as a pure Entity and item, but then disconnected and so forth and so on.<br /><br />Of course what I really invent and think is way more complex and elaborate and incredible than me being possible to explain it or write it, I am just giving you a glimpse of a small parts of my thoughts: I am a Genius, the greatest Genius of all Time, bar none.<br /><br />Free Physics, all Laws and No Laws operating, make up anything at all, as crazy as possible, connecting all kinds of things and disconnecting them, as a letter on a page is the heart of a person, but that person is a car engine in a transistor that is inside an atom and so forth, and all mixed up, all time and space confused, a total chaos, and all so true and such.<br /><br />Free Physics like Free Jazz, break all the rules, improvise, experiment, or better still like Contemporary Music where even the instruments no longer exist, but any wild sound is Music, so it must be done in Physics, anything as far out as possible is the new truth...<br /><br /><br />THE 8<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:08 pm<br />From:<br /><br />http://instantsingularity1.blogspot.it/<br /><br />http://instantsingularity3.blogspot.it/<br /><br />http://instantsingularity.blogspot.it/<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby James S Saint » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:20 pm<br /><br /> nameta9 wrote:we must completely change our paradigm, our way of doing things.<br /><br /><br />Why exactly "must" you do that?<br />What do you think happens if you don't invent new lies to live by?<br /><br /> nameta9 wrote:We must free ourselves from being slaves to what Nature and the Laws of Physics dealt us, WE MUST ENTER THE AGE OF PURE INVENTION, WE MUST CREATE NEW WORLDS, CREAT NEW LAWS, WE MUST NO LONGER BE SLAVES TO THE TRUTH, ETC. We must stop trying to discover Objective Truths but invent Subjective False Truths, we must worship Lies, we must worship total falsification of reality and all, invent fake worlds and live in them, be crazy to the utmost extent.<br /><br /><br />They call that Quantum Physics.<br />Clarify, Verify, and Instill the Perception of Hopes and Threats that Optimize the Momentum of Inclusive Self-Harmony :)<br />Else<br />From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.<br /><br />The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.<br /><br />Respect the morons.<br />We are all there is.<br /><br />What you don't see is what you fall into.<br /><br />James S Saint<br /> ILP Legend<br /> <br /> Posts: 7943<br /> Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:36 pm<br />Go Man, Go ! that little crack on the wall is GOD, but that other crack is the "Origin of the Electron", but the event that happened under the sea 10,000 years ago in a given point is the cause of the pebble on that other side of the street which back caused (through negative time) the shape of a cloud in point Omega in the Sky but forward caused the entity of a Jet Engine appearing in point X, but cross causing the small dent on the floor in the house in point Z, and so on, mix it up, make eveything be the cause of anything else, but also invert it, but also confuse it, but also disconnect entities (create ever new delimitations, and connect the most different things and assign them as one single thing and make it become anything else, like a tire and a cup of tea is a train which is a thought which is a memory, etc.), and make them become the most important thing in the "Universe" and also the least at the same time and so forth and so on, just do it Man, you can do it. Every point in space is the same and different point of any other and all mixed, and all condensed in one point and all time is condensed in one moment but exploded in trillions and all time and space is cross converted and so forth, make it up, use wild formulas, make it go ever more crazy, and mix in Observers (new Brain Machines Observing and Decoding a reality being Observed) and Emotion Engines and Machines and all kinds of things.. Cool, really Groovy....<br /><br />Firt gear, its all right, second gear hold on tight, third gear, you're out of sight...<br /><br /><br />THE STAR MAN, THE 8 MAN, THE NUMBER...<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:59 pm<br /><br /> James S Saint wrote:<br /><br /> nameta9 wrote:we must completely change our paradigm, our way of doing things.<br /><br /><br /> Why exactly "must" you do that?<br /> What do you think happens if you don't invent new lies to live by?<br /><br /><br /><br />For Some Cheap Thrills...<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby captaincrunk » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:56 am<br /><br /> nameta9 wrote:I am a Genius, the greatest Genius of all Time, bar none.<br /><br /><br />Even smarter than that one dude who won "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?"<br /><br />captaincrunk<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1409<br /> Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:34 pm<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby anon » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:54 pm<br />Coleman's got nothing on Coltrane, but I'm glad it happened! I bought Free Jazz a long time ago - probably listened to it twice. It was too formal, ironically, it didn't have the heart or searching drive of, say, Coltrane's Impressions, or Sanders's Thembi. Free physics sounds great, if it's got heart and a drive to discover equal to its drive to invent.<br />.<br /><br />"Distraction is the only thing that consoles us for our miseries, and yet it is itself the greatest of our miseries." - Blaise Pascal<br /><br />"Any sufficiently advanced position is indistinguishable from lunacy." - Fuse<br /><br />User avatar<br />anon<br /> ILP Legend<br /> <br /> Posts: 6473<br /> Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:59 pm<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:34 pm<br />From:<br /><br />http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/09/zeitgeist-failure.html<br /><br />"It's like the philosophical bullshit that Tegmark posts all the time. Guys like Ken Wilber will be forgotten two years after their deaths because they are just mental masturbators who imbue their cant with a spiritual edge. "<br /><br /><br />Philosophical BS (and "Name Dropping") dedicated to XXX5<br /><br />It's as if Logic itself was the Ultimate Reference System, the Ultimate Absolute, the Principle of Non Contradiction and Identity are the Absolute Reference System from which all else can be serialized, all further logical paths can be followed: but there, I said it, I will contradict myself on purpose and deny identity on purpose and follow logical paths anyways, who cares, A is B and A is not B at the same time, and connect anything to anything following any absurd logical path I want.<br /><br />As any Theoretical Physics does, in the long run, in infinite time, a mind investigating all possible relationships and theories in physics will end up finding a theory, a connection between anything, any sequence of symbols will end up being a theory, that is actually valid and true (gravity comes from pebble 4,567 on Mars, etc., and the electron is a Number on point Z on the Sun, and the Concept of Number as such is based on a cloud that passed on earth), that can perfectly match all experimental values. It is a long stretch, but all possible theories of physics are all simultaneously true since the connections are made in the mind itself that can connect anything to anything and justify anything to anything, etc.<br /><br />But either all possible logical models are and will always be true, since in essence the mind performing the theory is just a Subset of Matter decoding another subset of Matter, hence Matter simply talking to itself, with no other external reference and constraint possible since that would imply that there is something outside of Matter, outside of the Universe forcing it to abide to rules or not all possible theories can be true, hence there is something outside of the universe constraining it. But anything can be outside of the universe, anything can be invented outside of the universe to constrain any theory and any possible invention and developments of explanations in any possible way, hence if anything goes, it is all true and false and irrelevant anyways.<br /><br />But the closest thing we can conceive as being an Absolute, almost external constraint are the Principles of Identity and Non Contradiction, hence these principles must be outside of the universe, must be in some kind of platonic other place, other area, someplace else, whatever on earth this place is, or probably more truthfully, logic itself is simply a way of matter interacting with itself and only appearing when a logic based Observer decodes all of the events and signals it perceives and invents and interacts with in a logical schematic of reality and matter since that is the only schematic and circuits it has of reality.<br /><br />So Free Physics is totally justified, invent the most incredible ideas and theories, make them the most insane, the most insanely complicated or simply mathematically simple or whatever (no matter what, given enough logic and computers that can analyze any theory, it will find the mathematical and logical justification, but obviously within an ever increasing abstract and complex framework, and it will need an ever increasing amount of time etc.).<br /><br />But Break Logic once and for all and you exit this Universe and enter another, so break it before it can be theoretically justified in the year 5 billion 2020...<br /><br />Philosophy is that thing that with or without doesn't affect or change anything: Exactly ! it must be totally subjective, totally unjustified, totally wrong, a total waste of time, it must have absolutely no possible "Social Value", it must have no possibility to be communicated, the more it is transparent and invisible, the better, the more abstract the better, the more totally confusing and totally void of any value the better, it must be despised by the Man Brain and by the Man Type of Observer (that thinks that he is some kind of Absolute Reference, when he is a quirk of a reference system probably the simplest turdy reference system Matter can Express, as Matter can express untold trillions of more complex elaborate, incredible reference systems and Informational Relationships within itself as it is always just Matter talking to itself, nay, An entity (always totally abstract, therefore Non Existent and False and I hope you can't understand any of this in the slightest) that is talking to itself, relating to itself in untold ways etc.).<br /><br />Philosophy has nothing to do with anything social or communication, the least of all with morality.<br /><br />For anything said or any sentence or any idea, the exact opposite and the exact contradiction of that idea or sentence is always true...For anything, the opposite of that anything is also true...<br /><br /><br />8<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby James S Saint » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:57 pm<br /><br /> nameta9 wrote:It's as if Logic itself was the Ultimate Reference System, the Ultimate Absolute, the Principle of Non Contradiction and Identity are the Absolute Reference System from which all else can be serialized<br /><br /><br />Emm.. actually... emm.. it is.<br /><br /> nameta9 wrote:Philosophy has nothing to do with anything social or communication, the least of all with morality.<br /><br /><br />Emm.. actually... emm.. it does.<br /><br /> nameta9 wrote:For anything said or any sentence or any idea, the exact opposite and the exact contradiction of that idea or sentence is always true...For anything, the opposite of that anything is also true...<br /><br /><br />Ah... okay... now There is the BS you were referring to.<br />Clarify, Verify, and Instill the Perception of Hopes and Threats that Optimize the Momentum of Inclusive Self-Harmony :)<br />Else<br />From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.<br /><br />The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.<br /><br />Respect the morons.<br />We are all there is.<br /><br />What you don't see is what you fall into.<br /><br />James S Saint<br /> ILP Legend<br /> <br /> Posts: 7943<br /> Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:28 pm<br />From:<br /><br />http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/09/what-does-it-mean.html<br /><br />Further Reading:<br /><br />http://instantsingularity1.blogspot.it/<br /><br />http://instantsingularity3.blogspot.it/<br /><br /><br />Author Profile Page 8man | September 18, 2012 2:32 PM | Reply<br /><br />http://instantsingularity.blogspot.it/<br /><br />nameta9<br />Philosopher<br /><br />Posts: 1585<br />Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:42 am<br /><br />That was From the Masterpiece:<br /><br />viewtopic.php?f=3&t=179180<br /><br /><br />I am the greatest genius of all time, the top, absolute best, Einstein is a puny fairy compared to me!<br /><br />THE APE HEAD<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby James S Saint » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:32 pm<br />I will give that you have a sharp mind.<br />But I see it as bent and frustrated.<br />Clarify, Verify, and Instill the Perception of Hopes and Threats that Optimize the Momentum of Inclusive Self-Harmony :)<br />Else<br />From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.<br /><br />The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.<br /><br />Respect the morons.<br />We are all there is.<br /><br />What you don't see is what you fall into.<br /><br />James S Saint<br /> ILP Legend<br /> <br /> Posts: 7943<br /> Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:35 am<br />The Laws of Change<br /><br />Exactly what laws would exist without Change ? Aren't all laws referenced to the paths of change, to repetitive patterns that emerge when any kind of change appears ? But we want the laws of Static, we want the laws of things that rarely change, the pebble on the Moon has been still for many years, just like a crack on the wall has been still for many years, hence the last clock tick of their local clock occurred many years ago, nothing is happening in those 2 points, so time doesn't exist in those 2 points, the laws of physics are exactly suspended for those 2 points because there are no Laws of Change being expressed, the points are not abiding to the constraints of any Laws of Change, as any law is always a Law of Change, a Law of Interaction, of Events, and how we organize and decode the Events in our Mind, or the Mind of an Observer that measures the Change according to his own changes, to his own internal frequencies, to his own reference system of repetitive patterns (heart beat, and millions of protein foldings and chemical reactions in cells and millions of electrical signals in the brain, etc.) that are defining all other repetitive patterns it perceives and decodes from the signals it receives from "Outside", form Independent Entities, as the independence of the Entities guarantee that they are Different from us, will surprise us, will do things we cannot know, will do things over which we have no control over.<br /><br />The laws of static as everything that is still is still because trillions of invisible forces are all pulling the things in different directions but as a total result keeping it perfectly still. So you can invent trillions of new forces and new Laws of Physics that produce No Change, Static, as in Free Physics, and let your imagination go wild, and HAVE FUN, since it doesn't have to be "proved", it doesn't have to go through the dictatorship of Reality and "Experimental Evidence" and Logic and "Being True" and all other such puny BS, I want to be free, I want to do whatever I want, I want total freedom to create any truth and impose it on reality!<br /><br />Clock ticks are a frequency, hence an energy, hence time creates energy, actually the more change, the faster the change, any change, the more energy is being expressed, is being created, is being produced, there is no conservation of energy, but the constant production of new energy in the form of frequencies, of clock ticks, all of the electrons and protons in the center of stars are interacting, changing position, how many clock ticks correspond to all of those changes, what is the minimum time interval that must be achieved to find all of the particles still, if only for one moment ? there is no limit to how high a frequency can get and conversely there is no limit to how small a time interval can be, the abstract nature of time is exactly this, it is not bound by limits, but time is exactly like a number, can be as small and as large as you want. Maybe to find all particles exactly still in the universe the smallest time interval would have to be 10^-10000 picoseconds, but there is a time interval where everything is perfectly still, is not moving, nothing has enough time to move (Absolute ZERO Temperature ?).<br /><br />Use some "Serial Logic" will you XXX5, you say the philosopher doesn't "contribute" to social problems or technical solutions, etc. ? And why should he have anything to do with such Low Level, Puny crap ? Why should he give a crap about all of those idiotic things ? the philosopher is way passed all of this, is vastly superior to all of this as he is vastly superior to all other men, as he is the OverMan, the SuperMan, the GOD of all and the GOD of himself. There are already so many scientists and politicians and engineers applying their "Logic", their Serial Logic to those puny, petty, fairy problems, the philosopher must apply his Mind to the greatest problems of all, namely, No Problem at all, must only HAVE FUN, doesn't have any Responsibility towards anything, not even himself, is vastly free, forever free, AND WINS ALL THE TIME STRUCTURALLY, BY DEFINITION. Now be envious, on me, since I always win and will win forever, at most you can try to imitate me.<br /><br />And this myth of Nature Loving, of alternative social systems to capitalism and such is just an attempt at installing a new Theocracy, a new Subjective system, the most Objective and ultimately least violent system of interactions between people is exactly pure Capitalism (although subjectivity is always operating, but in a very indirect and detached mode, everyone buying IPHONES is a subjective choice, but detached, you can choose, etc.), the Industry and Machine and Profits all speak by themselves and force everyone to abide to Objective numbers, whereas all these hippies trying to impose their "Alternative" "Green" lifestyles, "being good to each other", these "social values", these "communities" for the "common good" (who give 2 c*cks and a d*ck! I want mine, I am a total egotist, I can care less of everyone else, they are all a constraint, a limit on my freedom always, other people suck hugely and so does all of this community, social values, environmental protection, tree hugging crap and such BS!) want to introduce Subjectivity and a new Religion on everyone with the result that everyone will become dirt poor exactly like in those countries that don't have wild consumerism, technology, capitalism, cars and highways and malls and such, because they want to protect nature (puny Denmark with their crappy Bikes come in Mind, what total idiots, a recipe for poverty, we need industry, large scale structures, trillions of cars, highways, we must dominate nature to its utmost, etc.), without consumerism and industry and all such things the alternative is poverty, is nothing, is third world living conditions, there is no alternative to the only economic system that ever created some mass distribution of wealth, namely the American Economic System, the only model, especially the model as it was applied from 1950 to the 1990s until the Greens and Old Nature Loving thugs decided to stop wild development and production and all other things.<br /><br />So don't believe the Resource Scarcity Myths, the Environmentalists, they are bringing the world towards Mass Poverty, they want to go backwards when we must go forward to the future, Rockets, Malls, Highways, High Speed Trains, Jets, Skyscrapers, ever more consumerism, etc.<br /><br /><br /><br />APE<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:44 pm<br />from:<br /><br />http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/09/what-does-it-mean.html<br /><br />Dedicated to mistified...<br /><br />Examples of Free Physics:<br /><br />"...You'd think the destruction of 8 Marine Harrier..."<br /><br />and<br /><br />"8 Man"<br /><br />are related because they both have the sequence of symbols "8 M", so that is a connection point in an abstract, metaphysical world. Now do that with all sentences, all words, all parts of words, even letters, etc.<br /><br />Like "agree it makes" is related to "Collateral Transformation (E341) " since they both contain the letter "a", now imagine all the ways those two sentences are connected on that hinge of a letter, how they can be combined in a metaphysical world, what incredible deep meaning that must be between them, etc.<br /><br />Now imagine a number, any number that represents anything, like "53 miles" (from anywhere or to anywhere or anything), and "53 pebbles on Mars", and imagine how those 2 numbers connect those 2 concepts, 2 chunks of matter, 2 delimitations, etc. And what incredibly deep meanings, what incredibly deep sensation circuits in a new Mind Brain Design can they be associated to and connected to, what paradise of pain/pleasure and other extensions and denotations and recursions, ever more recursions and inventions are possible!<br /><br />And do that with atoms and electrons and pixels in an image and all else, all connected to all according to the quirkiest connections, all going ever higher, achieving ever higher states of existence and being, just like the imagined linear expansion of science inventing and discovering new physics ever day (like discovering a new thing like electricity, and then Maxwell equations and then General Relativity) all in one day, and then higher entities and discoveries all in an hour, then a second, ever going forward, ever faster, exponentially faster! the Instant Singularity achieving ever more, the dream of Infinite Science, imagine where we will be at in the year 500 trillion 1956 !?!?!?!?<br /><br />And all of those connections become a New Brain as in Brainium, and a New Universe, invent ever more, be whacky and crazy, go for it Man, GO MAN GO!<br /><br />FIRST GEAR ITS ALL RIGHT, SECOND GEAR HOLD ON TIGHT, THIRD GEAR YOU'RE OUT OF SIGHT, GROOVY MAN, GROOVY...<br /><br /><br />THE COCK, THE TURD SPEAKS ONCE AGAIN, THE APE MAN<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:26 am<br />FREE PHYSICS...<br /><br />Why Change anyways ? Change for the better, or a subset of entities of Matter compares itself to another different subset and finds or assigns itself as "better" or some Observer perceives it as "better", but "better" is already defined from the outset by the structure of the Observer and by the signals it receives and how it will evaluate them. But all things have a Will Power that wants to change for something better, but all changes are simply killing the previous configuration associated to some abstract Will Power somewhere (just assign it) everything is fighting a war with itself for changes, to change, when no change is any better, they are all wrong and worse and all the same, and it all cancels out, etc. and what subset of matter is associated to what will power and what idea, and how long does the entity being compared to another entity that is different and changed does it last ? how much does the set of events and entities and observations considered a reference point from which to measure all other changes extend in Space and Time ? and each change is killing the other change to achieve the better, but nothing is better so it all cancels out.<br /><br />As all change is an internal fight between subsets of entities between themselves, but they always change so they all lose anyways, an internal fight of matter with itself (or denotated will powers belonging to some other items, to a pebble on Mars and the other change is associated to the will power and desires of a small ocean wave in the Pacific Ocean, etc.), trying to impose the new configuration as the better one, but it is only a memory erase and memory write operation upon a set of information items, no matter how extended in space and time and how many items compose it etc.<br /><br />And combine the oddest items as anything, as one person, as one story, as one experience as one anything and compare that to another set of items combined as a different person, and judge who is better, and let them fight, so for example a car engine and a pebble is person one and a house and a mountain is person two and they are judging each other reciprocally according to what they think is "better", but there is no better since they are arbitrary quirks, and so on, and extend chunks and bits of logic to the most disjoint concepts and items and entities, and make up the greatest possible nonsense, and slowly demolish all logic and thought and so on.<br /><br />Not Reductionism but Explosionism, find as many different items as possible, the most different possible and combine them and assign them as all having any arbitrary "common denominator" and create a new Physics and New "Explanations" for it all, we need to find the most "Uncommon Denominator" to all entities, be as wrong and as illogical as possible and create a New Physics like that (not like what has been done up to now, finding the elementary particles that are common to all, like Atoms or Electrons, and finding the Repetitive Patterns of how Change Behaves, but the exact opposite, assign the most wrong and weirdest things as Elementary particles and FORCE all items to abide and discover the laws of Static and Not Change, and the most Non Repetitive Patterns as possible, nay, FORCE anything you want as the truth, make believe that a Non Repetitive Pattern is a Repetitive Pattern and the opposite, and so on just for the fun of it, just for kicks, tease all logic). Like since the color of a pebble on Mars is blue and the car on the corner is blue they have a new common denominator, they are connected magically by some new physics and laws, or since the number 786 is a measurement of some temperature somewhere and it is also the distance between two given electrons inside the Sun, they are connected by a fundamental new Law of Physics, they have a deep connection, the number 786 becomes a new fundamental law of physics just like electromagnetism or gravity, etc. Use random insignificant things as the basis for all, tease the entire program of Science and Logic and Reductionism, we need Explosionism, etc.<br /><br />It all cancels out, For everything that is false, the Opposite of that anything is also False, Everything is False, no matter what, because TRUTH NEVER EXISTED. For anything said, any change performed anything at all, the opposite (but even any other relationship, not necessarily the opposite), or any other things is also true and valid and correct, for anything the opposite is what that anything really means, for any truth the contrary of that truth is also true, make it all cancel out, demolish it all from the inside by making it logically incoherent, for anything logical, the opposite of that is also logical, keep on contradicting yourself, let Matter contradict itself in all possible manners, demolish logic, throw it down from its throne (but at the same time or a different time or anything confirm it) (and anyways, it is done all the time in the "Science" of economics and in all things Religious and Moral, so we already know how to be illogical and completely wrong pretending to be right and to be saying truths, etc.).<br /><br />But we must use a rigid Doctrine, just One Bit, as the only truth and kill all other truths, etc. A is KU is the only truth, that is the Absolute Rigid Document for all, now fight wars and kill each other over that.<br /><br />Ev{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~ IER{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~5 88{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}W~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{=£$$}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}%~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂xz⌂}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}&/ (~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~()()= {}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~{}~<br /><br />Wow, who knows what that new Brain design is doing ! Who knows what new experiences and what new Universe that Observer is associated to ! (or you can define that sequence of symbols above as anything you want, as a story, as a signal to an eye form of sense organ on some new Mental Contraption, as anything at all, as a Brain system, as a new Observer, whatever)........<br /><br />And write another 500 trillion pages of stuff like this, ever more, ever whackier, the crazier the better...<br /><br />All of the above is a huge waste of time, is all wrong, please ignore this post...<br /><br />APE<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:02 pm<br />Everything is a Mind, an Observer watching, but different kinds of Minds, wild and wicked Minds, and Observers, and everything has an associated Will Power and desire to Change and Modify according to His Desires (Not GOD's which is the Master Model for most of the Man Brain's BS) but you can mix Will Powers and Minds, and Designs and create Hybrids and Mixtures between Sense Organs and chunks of Mental Circuits and how they appear from Outside (not in the form of a Person but in the form of a Car Tire for example) but then changes again, and instead of the signals following the circuits of a Mind, it is Car Tires that are following the Signals and the signals may be Static Monolithic Chunks of Matter and the Mind may be an Ocean or the other way around and all mixed up and upside down and on and on.<br /><br />The Car Tire is the Emotion, the rubber molecule number 143556 in point Z of the Car Tire is the entire "Person" (whatever that can mean, you invent it!), so even big and small and what is contained in what is confused, mixed up, change it all, decompose all, destructure all structures and mix them up and create new structures that then define a new Universe and corresponding Observer (or even not corresponding, and even there, all mixed, all confused, experiment to the maximum and so on).<br /><br />Free Physics, like Free Jazz, crazy music, the more incomprehensible the better, the more pure noise the better and then every now and then some nice Progressive Rock chunks appear and so must be the Physics of the Future, the new way to decode the world, be crazy, do it man, do it, GO MAN GO !!!<br /><br />But why change and do anything ? why is the new thing better than the old thing or the different thing better (as any set of things can be put on a line and set as the "old" or "worst" thing and the "new" or "better" thing or set as the starting point and target point expressing the direction of going to better, or expressing the direction a Will Power or Mind wanted it go (so all things have Minds and Will Powers associated to them, even a static crack on the wall is a mind and desire and direction saying it wants to keep on staying still, so then even Blind forces are pushing things to become "better" and are "judging" better and worst according to that One Bit Circuit, that One Transistor Circuit of Good and Bad, Better and Worse, Forward and backward and so on ?)) than anything else ? what is being compared to what if you can combine the entire set of entities into one thing (even the past history and future history, a slice of Time and Space as one entity along with all of the signals and subsets of delimitations arbitrarily defined by Matter, Events and Signals simply creating a Long Bit Set of Informational relationships)...but then create all kinds of new combinations of delimitations, delimit all in the most wildest ways, invent new entities based on new boundaries and new delimitations and relate them to other new entities and delimitations in the most wild and complex way, and go on forever, and create new brains based on this, and then new circuits in the new brains and then mix it all up and mix the sense organs and memories with rocks and car tires and ocean waves and chunks of the solar plasma (the 200 kilometer square solar plasma half way from the surface of the Sun to the center of the Sun) and so on...<br /><br />THE APE JOB, 8 MEN<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:02 pm<br />Fundamentals of Free Physics<br /><br />A method can be to assign equivalencies between different items, by assigning them you force all of the other items and delimitations of the Universe to be something else, mathematically so to speak, logically so to speak, even though a very abstract and advanced logic is being used, a logic that has finally done away with the Identity Principle and the Principle of Non Contradiction, now it is all allowed. So you can say that a Car Tire is an Emotion, and a Pebble is a Star and a Steering Wheel is a Transistor (or be even more specific, that steering wheel A is that transistor B, etc.). So now what is the Mountain equivalent to correspondingly ? And what is the Electron going through the Transistor going to be ? and you can even assign another item as the Electron going through the transistor to create more constraints, more hinges, so the Electron may be a tin can, that is they are 100 % equal, totally, not only symbolically, but physically, materially, really really the same, equal, etc. And by adding more constraints you force all of the other items in the Universe to be equal to something else, mathematically, by using some kind of abstract mathematics, etc. And you can even assign more than one equivalency, a set of equivalencies like a Star is a Car is a Town is a Pebble, and the combinations and set size can be ever large, since then all of the other trillions of delimitations are forced to be something else and also equal to other things and so forth. And you can imagine the equivalencies changing in time and getting all mixed up and all kinds of funny new relationships and so on, and disconnecting some equivalencies and contradicting your own system so the pebble is not the car, but is the car, but is the star but is not the mountain, but is composed of the tar but is contained in the electron, and so on, and so on, be inventive, be wild.<br /><br />A Radio has an Engine inside that is making it work, an Engine with Gasoline, not Transistors and a Computer is a TV set, and so forth, and then the equivalencies can have different degrees of being the same from 100 % the same to only partially the same to only slightly the same and assign a number from 1 to a trillion that describes how EQUAL they are, with 1 being the least equal, 100 being 100 % equal and larger numbers meaning that the items are even more than equal and so forth.<br /><br />Free Physics is so much more superior to old fashion Physics, and he who does Free Physics and invents Free Physics is so much more superior to all other Men, is the GOD of all, is the most superior to all...<br /><br />I am so superior to all, I am so much better to all, I am worth infinitely more than all of the Human Race, I am worth much more than GOD...<br />I am way too advanced for this civilization, I am so much more advanced than all of you puny logically fairies, I am so advanced you can't believe it...<br /><br />THE 8 MAN<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:41 pm<br />Everything is an Absolute Truth<br /><br />Everything is an Absolute Truth, is the Extreme Truth and there is nothing anyone can do about it: so when the Christian Fundamentalist says God will beat you up and punish you just because, he is 100 % right, it is the Absolute Truth, the Final Truth, no one and nothing can change that, it is like a piece of infinitely hard Matter, like a piece of Steel, like a rock, rock solid, a monolithic slab of infinitely hard matter that can never again be destroyed, and that is why people fight and get pissed off at those who pronounce the Absolute Truth, since no debate and nothing can and will ever change that: and My Religion is the only one that is right, all of what I say is the only Absolute Truth and everyone else is Wrong, so I win Forever, etc.<br /><br />They are all Absolute Truths, everything is an Absolute Truth, and you have lost any debate against that, all debates are lost forever, another Absolute Truth (the same one, as all is the same and different, all is equal and different from itself ?) is that GOD DOESN'T EXIST and all Religions are False, so this is the Final Word, the Absolute Truth, and the Absolute Truth is that GOD EXISTS and My Religion is the only one that is right, etc.<br /><br />So everything is right and wrong, so everyone loses forever, only I win, so I lose forever, I lost all debates, TRUTH IS NOT RELATIVE, BUT ABSOLUTE AND GOD WILL BEAT YOU UP, AND TRUTH DOES NOT EXIST BECAUSE IT IS ALL RELATIVE, AND THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GOD etc.<br /><br /><br />And yet Man is only Pent Up Desire to Fight, Man is Fight Repressed (actually civilization and language is the attempt at trying to domesticate and calm down the only instinct we have, and that is to fight and win against everyone, it is so fascinating for the mind to see others and how they are different and all enemies and must be all killed (the mind can't believe that there are other minds different from itself and wants to fight and win against them all), etc. and "love" is the temporary illusion that maybe it is not so, but then it always ends up being so, but we also collaborate, but always against another enemy, etc. so in essence we are always in the same place, we are still forever, (nay we are going backwards forever, everything is going backwards and forwards forever, repeat again) No Progress here, always the same and same fights until we change the Brain Design), would always like to beat and win against all others, the very basis of all of "Life" is the fight, the fight against obstacles, in the form of chemical reactions with molecules in the beginning all fights and actions and reactions, (but sometimes collaborating).<br /><br />So all of the above is the Absolute Truth, so all of the above is False, there are no Absolute Truths, nothing is true, everything is true, for everything the opposite of everything is true, for everything the opposite of everything is false, etc.<br /><br />Everything is True and Everything is False, there is No Solution to any problem, the is No Progress ever, we are still forever, everything is a solution to any problem, everything is a solution to anything and everything, we are always going forward ever more, progress is infinite and we are progressing infinitely, we are always changing for the better, etc.<br /><br />Everything cancels out, no that is all false, only I win, why I am the winner of all ? Why an I so superior to all other people and things ? Why have I won all and everything and everyone else have lost all to me ? (you always win against another, that is why the Economy will never have any kind of solution, the Economy is always doing well or bad according to who you are...).<br /><br />I repeat the same crap forever, because I am a loser...<br /><br />So everything (any idea or thing or event or Informational Relationship) is Absolutely False, can't exist, doesn't exist, etc.<br /><br /><br />APE HEAD<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:02 pm<br />Everyone is Right<br /><br />So if everyone is right, everyone is wrong, how can anyone be right, correct, how can anyone say or express any correct - right - true idea or concept if it can always be contradicted, denied, debated, if it can always be contrasted, if anything can be controvertial ? So then it is impossible to be right, you can be right only if it is impossible to formulate a contrary - opposite - conflicting - opposite idea, so then everyone is wrong, everyone is 100 % dead wrong, absolutely, 100 % wrong, and that demonstrates logically, mathematically, absolutely and beyond even the principles of non contradiction and identity that everyone is absolutely 100 % correct, right, etc.<br /><br />The entire idea of anything is to be against anything else, the entire idea of Information and Debates is to contrast against a background that is contradicting it 100 %, since nothing could exist if it didn't contrast and stand out from its background, a background that is always fighting it and trying to kill it and trying to deny it, etc. So when the Muslim says that GOD will beat you up he is right, 100 % right and when the Army says the Muslims deserve to be killed because they are saying lies, that is 100 % true, correct, so everyone is 100 % right and true and correct, then what is all the fighting about ? to occupy one point in space and time at the same time with only one truth, when the truth is many and all, so then the fight is always for one truth to kill another truth, but all truths are always killing each other and winning and losing at the same time, no only one truth will always win and that is my truth that the Pebble on Mars is GOD and the electron is the Steering Wheel, so there I said it, I said the only possible truth possible.<br /><br />As if all items in the universe are a language, a sequence of symbols that must be decoded and understood in a particular Observer _ Mind _ Man Brain type, so all of the pebbles on Mars and under the surface of Mars for 50 miles is a language, a book, a complete thought, one micro truth that must be decoded (but the delimitations creating the words, how pebbles create letters and words and sentences must be all invented and made up, but the words may start from the atoms of the pebbles up and the book may only be 50 miles wide deep and long, but then change the internal delimitations and you can create other books, a book where every word is 100 % different from the previous, books with trillions of pages and so on).<br /><br />But maybe the Solar Plasma is another book, the car dashboards are another book, thought, a complete idea, a political party, political parties that are fighting against each other and so on, you get the message, you can invent anything, it is all false, everyone is wrong, 100 % wrong, everyone is true, 100 % true, everything is intractable, everything cancels out, everything exists at the same time, everything, and the problems is always using the word everything as if anything has anything in common with anything else and can even be put in the same set and talked about, and so on.<br /><br />Another trillion blocks of text like the above but written in a new language like ENDNEDNENC Dc ne cLDX S:<br /><br />wedwrbckwfbckj felvefef<br />vefve<br />br<br />n<br />y<br />wedwrbckwfbckj felvefef<br />vefve<br />br<br />nwedwrbckwfbckj felvefef<br />vefve<br />br<br />nwedwrbckwfbckj felvefef<br />vefve<br />br<br />n<br /><br /><br />APE CAN<br /><br /><br />mtukmtuk,yi.h.<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:33 pm<br />A New Theory !<br /><br />So Everything is Right, everything is the only truth, only one truth, you name it and say it and only that truth is the truth, the absolute truth against all other lies, so anything is right, is 100 % right, so anything is wrong 100 % wrong, there are no truths, everything is right, everything is wrong, everything is disjoint and disconnects and say the opposite of what you said before and confuse, destructure and keep on going, just puts randoms words together and that is the final truth the truth revealed like (expectations can conceive disjoint and disconnects measure up to what against all other ) and so on.<br /><br />Simply get out of your comfort zone, accept anything as incredible as possible just for what it says and don't compare it to what you already know and expect, expect the incredible, the illogical, the ununderstandable, that that goes completely against any common sense, or logic, or anything you can conceive, accept the wildest, since all of our common sense and expectations are always based on what we are used to, what we already know, how things measure up to what we are, how we decode the world, how we are designed, the particular design of the Man Brain as a quirk, as an arbitrary quirk that measures all against himself as in Man is the measure of All Things, but the measurement is always based on a completely arbitrary random quirk of arrangements of items and elements, a completely random, chaotic arrangement of Matter that decided to become the Observer and measure all from its "Point of View", but has no generality, no value accept for the random value of pain/pleasure random circuits the random quirky process of Natural Evolution decided to give it has.<br /><br />So there is another Universe where all things are getting denser all the time, all of the past history of the particles remain solid where they are and keep on adding up, so time keeps on adding up all of the items that appear in any point of space time, condense them, make them all stay where they were forever, so the density becomes rapidly infinite, and ever so and ever faster, etc. The total universe having all of its past frozen in all of its points and all of the present events condensing and freezing for every moment in time, every electron that circles an atom solidifies around the atom and the matter around the atom becomes denser and denser, as each circle the electron goes through adds up to the solidification since it remains in every point it crosses forever, time is constantly being frozen and matter in its point and adding up the next event and solidifying the event and matter making it become infinitely denser and denser, etc.<br /><br />So this is now another kind of Universe, very interesting, where everything is remembered forever and everything is recorded forever (and remains in all of the places it has been from the beginning of time, etc.) and it becomes infinitely denser, etc.<br /><br />And you can invent other wild relationships and make the matter disappear and appear again, and condense it all in one point in space, or all in one moment and one point, or anything else, etc<br /><br />All Examples of Free Physics, the Final Truth, the Truth revealed.<br /><br />Economy is in essence only a fight between people, a conflict over resources (that are seldom and rarely limited or scarce, only Man's Subjectivity and desire to win and take away from another Man makes them "appear scarce"), actually economy can be described as the constant redistribution of resources from the poor or weaker members of society to the stronger members, just like a property owner takes away so much money from people needing to rent the property, as the redistribution of money from the weak to the strong is what the economy is essentially with the roles sometimes changing, with someone getting a lucky break or "risk taking" by buying property himself and becoming what he was from renting to owning and then getting a rent from other weaker people, etc.<br /><br />So simply a fight, a redistribution, a tug of war, nothing deeper, nothing "Structurally Objective" about it, it is just a random play of forces, a play of forces of weak against strong, the strong almost always winning (but sometimes not, etc.) nothing Scientific or Objective about the economy, it is just a play of random forces fighting each other if in ever more subtle and indirect ways, always trying to mask and hide the fight behind big words and concepts and fake objective limitations and so on (but the limitations are real, and namely the limitations other people oppose to other people, it is always other people that are the limiting factor, but since they are all arbitrary and worthless turds worth a BIG FAT ZERO, then there are no real limitations only the limitations of other Will Powers pretending to be "Objective", etc.).<br /><br />SO we need Free Salaries and Cheap Rents to overcome all of this. AMEN.<br /><br /><br /><br />APE CAN<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:42 pm<br />From:<br /><br />http://instantsingularity3.blogspot.it/<br /><br />http://instantsingularity1.blogspot.it/<br /><br /><br />http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/09/what-does-it-mean.html<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby x0Y619O1 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:26 pm<br /><br /> nameta9 wrote:most of what had to be discovered has been discovered, there will be very few really new breakthroughs in Science and Technology in the future<br /><br /><br /><br />disagree. How to you know that?<br /><br />As far as I understand, no matter where you are, world there will operate on certain laws. I cant imagine dimension, where something could exist without obeying some sort of laws. So inside black hole, in other dimensions, all that should be operating on certain laws. If there is laws we can find them out, no matter how hard or chaotic they seem, meaning that its still same good old objective truth. If something could exist, even in other dimensions, without operating on certain laws, meaning that, lets say, particles could choose what to do in particular situations, then yes, then it would be subjective false truth. As far as Im concerned, if one atom in certain situation does this, and another atom in exactly same situation does something different, then there would be no truth. Truth would change as atoms do something completely different in exactly same situations. I believe such dimension couldn't exist. I cant even imagine such place. About you being genius, I agree. I totally feel you when your saying that you cant even express what you're thinking with this primitive language and letters. Been there, done that. And since im like you, I can spot someone who's like me.<br /><br />User avatar<br />x0Y619O1<br /> <br /> Posts: 39<br /> Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:14 pm<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:28 am<br />From:<br /><br />http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/09/duty.html<br /><br />THE GENIUS<br /><br /> x0Y619O1 wrote:<br /><br /> nameta9 wrote:most of what had to be discovered has been discovered, there will be very few really new breakthroughs in Science and Technology in the future<br /><br /><br /><br /> disagree. How to you know that?<br /><br /><br /><br />Because I can invent and imagine things way beyond any possible breakthroughs, so even if there are some, they will be puny compared to my imagination, compared to what new Brain Designs can invent, live and create, artificial worlds, virtual realities, etc.<br /><br /><br /> x0Y619O1 wrote: As far as Im concerned, if one atom in certain situation does this, and another atom in exactly same situation does something different, then there would be no truth. Truth would change as atoms do something completely different in exactly same situations. I believe such dimension couldn't exist. I cant even imagine such place. About you being genius, I agree. I totally feel you when your saying that you cant even express what you're thinking with this primitive language and letters. Been there, done that. And since im like you, I can spot someone who's like me.<br /><br /><br /><br />But that is the basis of the non solvability of the three body problem: there are never really 100 % exactly the same situation two items find themselves in, the boundary conditions change, if ever so slightly, the initial positions and velocities are slightly different, (and up to what precision can you measure them ? 10^-100 mm ? or 10^-1000 mm, and under what time span ? 10^-100 nanoseconds ? 10^-1000 nanoseconds ?, so you say that slight difference doesn't count ? but it does, just look at chaos theory, etc. ) etc. and the three body problem also shows the limits of reciprocal influence of items: item A influences item B which influences item C which then goes back to influence item A again, or does it influence item B ? and then B influences A and C, and so on in a never ending entangled web of reciprocal influences which are intractable and demonstrate the true limits of science and any possible laws. So there is no absolute extreme determinism ever operating, so no rules and no laws, hence the real basis of reality is the absence of laws of physics, the laws of physics are just a quirky approximation of our interaction in our quirky body - mind - language - memory with a quirky world.<br /><br />I am the greatest genius of all time, light years away from anyone at all, many times more advanced and better than you or anyone or anything or god, or ....<br /><br /><br />THE APE CAN<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:38 am<br />Check Out:<br /><br />http://instantsingularity1.blogspot.it<br /><br />http://instantsingularity3.blogspot.it<br /><br />http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/09/duty.html<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:35 pm<br />I AM TOP<br /><br />I am trillions of time higher than god himself, I created god as a puny item, I am trillions of time more than all, god is a pebble compared to me, I have trillions of experiences in brain, higher than all, I execute trillions of experiences infinitely higher than all, I create and construct the universe, many universes, I am all, I am top gun, the universe is a puny item of mine, I am the top, I am so much higher than all.<br /><br />So I win all, I am a winner of all, higher than all, trillions of times, I have machine brain higher than all, machine experience higher than all, even itself and so on, I am top, the top forever and win all forever.<br /><br />Now be envious all of you puny little items compared to me, the creator of all universes and minds, the creator of all, even himself, I am top, now get mad, I said it, I win, I am the best forever, you will never reach me, never, no one and nothing can, I can go on and on...<br /><br />APE CAN<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby x0Y619O1 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:52 pm<br /><br /> nameta9 wrote:From:<br /><br /> http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/09/duty.html<br /><br /> THE GENIUS<br /><br /> Because I can invent and imagine things way beyond any possible breakthroughs, so even if there are some, they will be puny compared to my imagination, compared to what new Brain Designs can invent, live and create, artificial worlds, virtual realities, etc.<br /><br /><br /><br />I believe that in medieval times someone sed exactly the same thing. Imagination have limits, universe (supposedly and arguably) doesn't...<br /><br /> nameta9 wrote:there are never really 100 % exactly the same situation two items find themselves in, the boundary conditions change, if ever so slightly, the initial positions and velocities are slightly different, (and up to what precision can you measure them ? 10^-100 mm ? or 10^-1000 mm, and under what time span ? 10^-100 nanoseconds ? 10^-1000 nanoseconds ?, so you say that slight difference doesn't count ?<br /> THE APE CAN <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Theoretically speaking, there can be situations 100% exactly the same. One atom can only take up enough space for one atom. 2 atoms cant occupy 1 atoms space. It means that there is only certain amount of possibilities where atoms can be located, meaning that sooner or later they will be located exactly in the same coordinates as in given situation. So once again, if 2 atoms in exactly the same situation react differently, then it would be subjective false truth, but as far as I understand such place could not exist, because of chaos, meaning that you were wrong- we cant embrace subjective false truth since atoms obey certain laws and will react same in same conditions.<br />When one man dies it is a tragedy, when thousands die it's statistics.<br /><br />User avatar<br />x0Y619O1<br /> <br /> Posts: 39<br /> Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:14 pm<br /><br />Top<br />Next Display posts from previous: Sort by<br />Post a reply<br />42 posts • Page 1 of 2 • 12<br /><br />Return to Science, Technology, and Math<br /><br /><br />Who is online<br /><br />Users browsing this forum: No registered users<br /><br /> Board index<br /> The team • Delete all board cookies • All times are UTC [ DST ]<br /><br /><br /><br />Skip to content<br /><br /> Board index ‹ Philosophy Forums ‹ Science, Technology, and Math<br /><br /> Print view<br /><br /> FAQ<br /> Register<br /> Login<br /><br /> View unanswered posts • View active topics<br /><br />Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Moderators: Abstract, Staff<br />Post a reply<br />42 posts • Page 2 of 2 • 12<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:56 pm<br />From:<br /><br />http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/10/empty-pagentry.html<br /><br /><br /><br />Quantum Computer<br /><br />So they say that the quantum computer can do an infinite number of operations, hence then you can simulate and create any virtual reality or universe: but then the only constraint and limit at that point, since then all is possible, would be what the Observer wants to do, what could he possibly want when everything can be achieved ? (internal pleasure loops ? metaphysical engine searching infinite abstractions ?) anything could be, but the limit is in the process that generates the configuration of matter as an end point, as a result, and hence the constraint of matter to pass through some kind of Natural Evolution, some building process that creates the new brain, universe, mind experience set, Information Relationship sets, whatever. So the Observer will be forced to look at himself in the mirror finally and understand that all constraints and limits are only within himself, within his own structure, his fundamental design, so then he will have to modify his design, his brain structure, the construction of the Observer will have to modify himself to obtain ever more, since all that he can obtain by modifying the "Outside World" has been and can be obtained.<br /><br />So the Observer himself is the limits of Science and Progress, but there is no intrinsic limitation on how matter can be organized, it can be a planet sized complex brain full of chemicals and circuits and particle accelerators, computers, chips, you name it any possible end result (but matter can be configured as the start point and end point in any possible way, and any possible path can be travelled, you can always force impossible paths just for the fun of it) , but the constraint and limitation is on the process generating the observer, the natural evolution, the path that matter must pass through in order to obtain an end point configuration, but the start point and end points can be any at all, the paths the matter goes through can be any at all (even respecting the laws of physics 8 but this path is not necessary, you can assign matter to be configured all at once, in one chunk, the Instant Singularity (and even fool it that it occurred through a process by creating fake evidence and memories and such), you imagine it, so you can imagine just one bit being the observer of an infinite universe, or the universe itself observing and manipulating itself and anything in between, and the mismatch between parts of it to create independence and opposing will powers, infinite differences between chunks of the same brain creating infinite independence and so on, all kinds of configurations of matter as an Observer Universe set (but which is which ? when does one merge into the other ? and who is who and so forth, all of the delimitations, combinations, all kinds of weird things).<br /><br />So the process creating an end point seems to be too improbable, can't be figured out, can't be imagined (just like all of the millions of steps from creating the first living cell to man, a long complex process, a building plan so to say), but you can just assign matter instantly to be a configuration and skip any building process (or even create all kinds of very fast or very slow incredible building processes where matter can go through all kinds of weird intermediate evolutionary steps, like first you where a skyscraper, and then a cadillac and then a man and then a star and then an new brain, (and you can imagine so many intermediate steps and processes and forces creating that very quirky path, and all within the laws of physics and without any real intrinsic limitations of how matter can be configured) a funky wicked build process and plan even through all kinds of extremely improbable play of forces but even respecting the laws of physics, but even not respecting the laws of physics, after all you can just create a one shot assignment of matter to be in a certain way, just one step, the instant singularity step and so forth.<br /><br />12-21-2012 12:1212121212 .... pm THE END IS NEAR<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:59 pm<br />From:<br /><br />http://instantsingularity3.blogspot.it<br /><br />and<br /><br />http://instantsingularity1.blogspot.it<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:19 am<br />Translations<br /><br />We are always translating the unfamiliar into the familiar, we are always trying to explain, when the explanation is just the attempt to construct something familiar, something we can relate to, something that we can decode and understand in our language and mind and according to the repetitive patterns that we are used to but especially according to the repetitive patterns our neural circuits in our mind have created over the years, the library of repetitive patterns that then become what is reasonable, what is logical and correct but only because we already know them, we already understand them, really we already understand ourselves, our own paintings and pictures of reality, our own constructions that should always match reality. But that is the mistake: we take it for granted that our constructions are really the outside reality, are really the truth, we take ourselves as some kind of absolute observer that is the measure of all things, that has the language and logic and decodings available to explain everything and anything: but a funny thing happens, this is exactly true and is exactly what we do since whatever we see, whatever the phenomena, whatever the experimental results we get, we will always be able to interpret them in our reference systems, we will always be able to decode them no matter what, we will always create a model no matter what, since even if we only had 2 bits available to decode the world and anything, we would just map whatever we see into the only two bits we always have anyways and by doing this we will always explain it anyways, we actually explain things even before they are explained, we create the understanding and explanation even before we choose what sequence of symbols and what combination of words, elements, formulas we will use to explain something from the outset, from the beginning, even before the research is performed since everything will have to end up being positioned in our grids anyways, we can always force anything to be in any position in our grids and then exclaim that it has been explained. We think of ourselves as some kind of master independence unit from reality, as some kind of abstract absolute reference mind looking into the universe from the outside of it, as we are looking at it from outside of it, from some abstract absolute reference point just like god when in all truth we are simply always looking at ourselves, at our own mind, at are own decodings and languages and neural circuits and how they are always interacting with the flow of signals and symbols coming from the outside independent world, independent from us and our control, as everything really is based on this independence of one thing compared to another, as something not under the control of something else, etc.<br /><br />Case in point, in quantum physics we cannot exactly pinpoint down how electrons behave, so we just assign them a combination of properties and a combination of words and concepts to make them appear familiar, to make them seem reasonable and logical, and this can be done in an infinite number of ways, but we choose a simple model by saying that the electron is both a wave and a particle and can be in two points at the same time, end of story. We explained it, we now know it, we have conquered it but what we really did is just translate a series of events and experiments and functions into something that sounds reasonable and sounds right and is comforting and is similar to all of the many other repetitive patterns in the library of repetitive patterns already present in our mind. Maybe we could have said that the electron is not moving and is not still but is in some other state, but still the explanation is always an attempt at relating it to something we can somehow grasp, but maybe there really are no explanations, there really is no sequence of ideas and symbols and concepts that explain what happens at the elementary particle level, but since we think of ourselves as an absolute reference system observer who thinks he must know and will know everything, some explanation will always be found. But what should always be said is that the explanation found and the science created and the knowledge obtained is always relative, since it is always based on an arbitrarily designed observer, since it is always based on a quirky observer that is the exact contradiction of anything general or absolute, nay, the observer is only ever a complex ensemble of completely random quirky units and elements and items without any absolute value and with just some repetitive patterns inside of itself amongst a sea of non repetitive random and chaotic events and signals.<br /><br />So then, even if we had only two concepts on our mind, a hammer and a nail, we can translate and explain everything according to these two concepts anyways, the electron is the nail the forces is the hammer, everything is a hammer for a nail, everything is a nail for a hammer, everything we explain will always be familiar, or even unfamiliar, it doesn't matter, we will always find a combination of symbols, and words and concepts that we will always find to describe and explain and predict what will happen.<br /><br />But we are simply inventing the explanations always, we are simply translating a series of inputs into something we can recognize and understand and then manipulate in our mind and find the correspondence between the manipulations in our mind and the events we are observing, we can always find a one to one correlation between a sequence of symbols and a sequence of events (translating the events, the signals, the observations into a description, a language, a mathematical formula and anything else in which we are comfortable working with in the comfort of our mind that has abstracted away reality and matter and created a simpler information set and information relationships between elements and seeing how much reality obeys our decodings) and most important of all, exactly if and when we cannot find a correlation we will simply invent one, we will design a new correlation which is the easiest thing you can do and affirm that as the new truth, as a new truth amongst an infinite number of truths since there are an infinite number of combinations of sequences you can associate with anything else, any reality, any observations and experiments and such.<br /><br />So the conclusion of all of this is that we are really always simply talking to ourselves no matter what, we simply decode any signals and external realities into our concepts and categories, so reality is simply how the Observer is designed and what concepts and deocdings and mechanisms the Observer has in his mind, and scientific research is always just the process of creating as close of a one to one correspondence between what we observer and experiments and our concepts and decoding.<br /><br />But as you can see, there is no real absolute reference system in all of this, just an observer modeling the world according to how he is designed and how the signals of the world interact with him, any other design of an observer will create completely different modelings of a world, completely different universes, a completely different reality.<br /><br />The observer and his design is the universe essentially, there really is no outside universe, it is the observer that is really the measure of all things, but the observer fools himself into thinking that his measurement is some kind of absolute measurement of reality, is in a vacuum, is outside of reality, when in all truth, the observer is the reality itself, the observer is creating his own reality always, but is always subject to the play of independent outside forces (and there are also independent inside forces) that force him to further decode and further measure that which cannot be measured at all since all events in the end are random and casual and are without any decodings until some observer decides to decode them and fix them in a library of concepts.<br /><br />One area where we clearly see that our grids and decodings and explanations will never map onto reality is in the social and economic sciences: no matter how hard we try to manipulate and predict and model the economy or social phenomena we never achieve any possible progress at all since things will always go their own way, randomly, chaotically no matter what, we will always have the same "problems" over and over again no matter what: and this is because the independence and conflicts of the actors between themselves in these systems cannot be decoded into a linear logic, into a simple coherent cause and effect mechanism since there is no cause and effects, just so many independent actors fighting each other over and over again for any reason at all, especially for no reasons at all, always changing the configuration of the social and economic systems always creating winners and losers and problems for the losers and solutions for the winners and losers want to find solutions that are not and will never be there because the only solution is to fight back and become a winner and defeat the previous winner end of story. And yet politicans, sociologists economists philosophers keep on fooling themselves and everyone that they have the correct decodings, the correct interpretations, the correct linear logic and discourse and explanations about something which is totally outside of any of this since it is not even a system, a coherent system, it is not even an entity, just millions of wild and random play of forces interacting and going nowhere at all.<br /><br />And yet all of the grand explanations seem always so scientific, everyone accepts them as a possible truth, Marx theory, or the Adam Smith theory of economies or Freud theories of psychology and on and on when these are all just simply inventions, one to one correspondences with imaginary abstract mental models that think the thing they are modeling is a coherent entity.<br /><br />And notice how the emphasis is more and more on social conflicts, lawyers, software, apps and the applications of technologies that are simply talking to themselves, computers are units that are a language system of an external mind talking to itself always, a closed system, science is going in the direction of creating ever more artificial language and social based entities and further away from interacting directly with matter in a sense: we used to play with transistors and oscilloscopes confronting ourselves with the independence of matter from us, now we play with apps which are totally social constructions, we prefer to talk to ourselves (or others, which is the same thing) instead of talking to matter directly and measuring and interacting with analog circuits and transistors and oscilloscopes and such, everything is software now, everything is even being put more and more into language systems and decodings and even before you can interact with it. Hence just skipping it all and creating new brain designs and minds and wild wicked new neural circuits is the only way to go forward anymore, all else is expired, done with, we must now crack open skulls and throw wild signals and chemicals inside of them, like crazy, like free jazz and free physics.<br /><br />So then manipulating and creating new Mind designs, new brain designs is scientific and correct, is real progress, we need to produce planet sized brains full of particle accelerators criss crossing, and exploding them and throwing atom bombs in this planet sized brain and trillions of computer and events and signals happening in this planet sized (or maybe even an atom sized brain ? a microbrain ?) brain and live through all of the experiences, the wild and wicked experiences such a brain could undergo and express....<br /><br /><br />12-21-2012 12:1212121212 .... pm THE END IS NEAR<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:27 pm<br />Fighting<br /><br />And yet, that is what the fighting is all about: the independence of chunks of matter trying to become the master judge, the reference system, each chunk of matter (person) cannot believe that their judgments, their subjectivity is not absolute, is relative, is irrelevant, that all of the rest of the universe is independent from itself (the independence itself of chunks of matter compared to other chunks is shocking, is unbelievable, cannot be conceived, and each chunk is infinitely independent and disjoint from a contiguous chunk, etc.) hence the fight, the fight for what is right and each person (chunk of matter) thinks that it is right "objectively", "absolutely" (or even doesn't care, but is forced to fight, is forced to judge and compare constantly (and the other (independent ?) judgment is our god, the other person judging us is like god judging us, it is what all of the effort and labor is for in the end...even if it is only an imagined and imaginary make believe abstract judgment...), to evaluate, always with a background assumption that the judgment, that objective, particular judgment is absolute and objective, even if it admits to itself that it is relative, it is hardwired to pretend to be absolute, nay, it is absolute to itself within its own subjectivity or such, that is what the fighting is all about, how to establish who is right and wrong, who's judgment is the correct one, who's choice is the correct one and hence the idea of creating a "movement" or a group of people all thinking the same way against another group of people thinking in opposition or differently, the war, the wars are hence always based on the fact that there is no absolute, only relative - subjective judgments of quirky minds that want to force themselves to be right and hold the only truth against those that are wrong etc. And the pain/pleasure inflicted on others is a demonstration of a fake absolute system, as being right just because matter allows some chunks of itself to punish and have power over other chunks of itself, just to pretend, if only temporarily to be right and have achieved some kind of absolute, but the only absolute ever achieved is the power relationship, is the event (information relationship ? the desperate attempt of confirming an imaginary absolute begets anger and war and fights, we can't believe that we are irrelevant and subjective, that we can always be contradicted, opposed, always demolished in a jiffy just because, all of the independent chunks of matter and events and signals forcing us to interact, the very concept of independence (meaning zero power over other entities - or imaginary power over other entities as long as the other entities abide but they can always change their mind in a jiffy and oppose you) is absurd, etc.), A hits B, end of story.<br /><br />Then again, if Matter can think up of modified Brains, new Modified Man Brains, new organizations of matter that can experience reality, the universe (but there isn't one universe, but a never ending array according to how each Observer is configured and Designed and each Observer can be configured and Designed in an untold number of ways, after all just 100 numbers hardwiring some pain/pleasure/emotion/memory/sense circuits in a modified mind can be combined in 10^100 different ways, each way being a completely different being, Observer, hence man brain, hence Experience Set, hence universe, totally different universe, with nothing in common with a contiguous universe (really observer interaction set with itself, or better yet, the set of experiences and interactions matter may perform upon itself in essence).<br /><br />Hence if Matter can think it up (even though it is only a chunk of Matter in the form of a person - me) then it can construct it, it can make it real, it can assign anything, no matter how far out as absolutely real. Matter thinking up how to modify itself, the Observer thinking up of how to modify its own structure and brain and circuits is already the singularity achieved, the infinite recursion of itself upon itself.<br /><br />Now, that I have exposed the truth, you realize that I am god, nay, trillions of times more powerful than god, I am trillions of times more than all, trillions of times beyond the universe, I am all, a small particle of dust in my mind is the entire universe, I construct mathematics, I am always beyond matter and space and time and logic: in short<br /><br />I AM THE OVERMAN.<br /><br />12-21-2012 12:1212121212 .... pm THE END IS NEAR<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby James S Saint » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:59 pm<br /><br /> nameta9 wrote:each chunk of matter (person) cannot believe that their judgments, their subjectivity is not absolute, is relative, is irrelevant, <br /><br /><br />That is your error.<br /><br />The ONLY thing that is relevant is subjectivity, which happens to be a consequence of objectivity.<br />What objectively is, creates what is subjectively valued.<br />But if there is no subjectivity, there is no value... no "relevance".<br />Clarify, Verify, and Instill the Perception of Hopes and Threats that Optimize the Momentum of Inclusive Self-Harmony :)<br />Else<br />From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.<br /><br />The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.<br /><br />Respect the morons.<br />We are all there is.<br /><br />What you don't see is what you fall into.<br /><br />James S Saint<br /> ILP Legend<br /> <br /> Posts: 7943<br /> Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:12 am<br />Splashing Brains<br /><br />Planet sized contraptions containing thousands of trillions of Brain Accelerators criss crossing each other for the entire volume of the planet with untold high energies (accelerating all kinds of units and entities all together, all splashed together, car engines, rockets, brains, computers, mixing and converting everything into everything else creating brain - engine - rocket hybrids that are experiencing and thinking new lives, and creating new creations of matter expressing itself and its new experience set, a new potential experience set), crashing and splashing thousands of trillions of Brains together, creating a momentary new Hybrid brain made up of many brains, all the signals mixed and merged and confused, all of the units and delimitations mixed and combined, sense signals become thought systems become memory segments, trillions of logical thoughts connecting and disconnecting, trillions of emotions and new experience sets, space and time deconstructed, reality deconstructed and reconstructed in untold number of new ways, just imagine two brains colliding at extremely high speed, just like particle accelerators and how they splash together creating a new hybrid machine, experience set, a new universe, and now extend that to thousands of trillions of brains all collidings and splashing together at high speed and now extend that to a planet sized contraption with thousands of trillions of criss crossing brain accelerators (and put in all kinds of items in the accelerators, V8 engines, chips, skyscrapers, you name it, make it all collide and splash together and mix, the signal becomes the brain, the brain becomes the signals the delimitations are constantly changed and assigned differently time and space expand and contract locally according to how the instantaneous contraption lives an entire experience set, an entire lifetime, a universe time, local time expanding to trillions of years, but the global time of the instantaneous brain mix contraption is only a picosecond and so forth.<br /><br />And then within this completely filled and densed up planet full of splashing brains and colliding brains (together with all kinds of other configurations of matter, like chips and TVs and transistors and ships and jet planes and so forth, cities all colliding and creating new thinking machine hybrids having bricks and steel slabs inside of them and cylinders and atomic bombs exploding inside of them and so forth, the crazier the better), a Brainium Matter going from solid state to liquid to gas to plasma and back again and all mixed up creating entire civilizations and entire universes, untold many, and then throw into it and make them explode thousands of trillions of atomic bombs and make it jump around even more wildly, the crazier the better, the wilder the better, matter showing off what it can really do, break away from the past, the peacock showing all of its colors, Dragon shining with all values known...<br /><br />I AM THE OVERMAN.<br /><br />12-21-2012 12:1212121212 .... pm THE END IS NEAR<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:54 pm<br />Which Case ?<br /><br />The three possible cases with Physics - Mathematics:<br /><br />1) Even if you had infinite precision of initial conditions, positions of particles, velocities (precision with more than 1000 decimal points aka 10^1000 while presently the most precise measurement is about 15 decimal points aka 10^15 ?) and even if you had all of the exact formulas and even if you had the exact analytical solution to all of the equations, partial differential equations describing all physical systems, the entire universe, you still couldn't predict the next configuration of the system, there would always be a discrepancy. In this case, the message would be that Mathematics, Logic and the entire program of Scientific Research has a fundamental limit, no matter what, reality is outside of our models, no matter what, there is not a one to one correspondence of reality with any kind of logical construction, linguistics - symbolic construction of it in our mind, or in any mind for that matter, or in any contraption for that matter, even trillions of supercomputers, etc. This would mean that reality, the universe, matter, energy is disjoint from us, 100 % independent from us, completely alien from us. At most we have some good approximations, some lucky shots at guessing some patterns, our formulas are simply matter and reality making fun of us and playing jokes on us just for the fun if it (just like god makes fun of us and plays jokes on us with the impossibility to determine his existence, it is a matter of faith, hence everyone will beat up everyone else because they all have different faiths, etc.), matter and physics and reality make some things look logical and correspond to some formulas, tricking us into believing that the program, the logical analysis and discovery of patterns will lead us to even more precision and formulas (like the "language of the universe is written in mathematics" and such nonsense) only to hose us and fool us as soon as we try to solve the simplest problems like the simple 3 body problem (imagine trying to solve the million body problem contained in a glass of water or an ocean wave form and such).<br /><br />2) If you had infinite precision of initial conditions, positions of particles, velocities (precision with more than 1000 decimal points aka 10^1000 while presently the most precise measurement is about 15 decimal points aka 10^15 ?) and you had all of the exact formulas and even had the exact analytical solution to all of the equations, partial differential equations describing all physical systems, the entire universe, you could predict the next configuration of the system, there would always be no discrepancy. In this case the message would be that reality, matter, physics, the universe has a one to one correspondence with logical - symbolic - mathematical models of it in our mind, is quantized according to discrete and precise patterns, is simply a computer program in essense, hence you could create new programs and they would be 100 % reality, no matter what, you could invent virtual realities, nay anything you want, and the reality, and truth and the essense of that would be exactly as real as any physical reality, there is no metaphysical or abstract property making reality disjoint or independent from us. Of course the problem here would be to find all of the millions of values for particles and electrons (all of the electrons in the sun, and their exact position up to 1000 decimal points, and exact velocities up to 1000 decimal points and the exact analytical formulas and solutions to all of the equations, and so forth extended to the entire universe, all of the particles of the universe and such). And since this is hard to do (and then why stop at 1000 decimal points ? why not 100000 and then 100 trillion decimal points, there is no constraint saying which decimal point is the limit since if there was a constraint it would mean that the universe is a digital machine, quantized according to precise values) it can never be verified.<br /><br />3) You can determine the exact configuration of the universe (all of it, every particle and rock and event in it) to any precision you want by a handful of differential equations having exact analytical solutions and applicable to all and needing only 10 or 20 decimal points of precision for most particles (not even all). In this case, reality is a 100 % virtual reality, a machine, a puny machine with no metaphysical properties to it, we are an excess of it, we are excess capacity compared to what reality can deliver, etc. The problem here is that no one has discovered the secret formula to predict all, but it may be possible.<br /><br />The real solution is probably that reality is irrelevant to us as a subset configuration of the universe, we are a machine that creates, has and explores problems only according to its own input -> process -> out, we simply talk to ourselves in the end and don't need to know or have the precise configuration or next state of the universe. In this case, the entire program of scientific research is mostly metaphysics and philosophy, we just need to reach a level of self manipulation of our mind to create infinite pleasure loops or similar, or infinite complexity virtual realities that satisfy a given configuration of Brain Style and neural circuits, then the entire program of scientific research would be done and over with no matter how much we discovered or not or what would be left to discover.<br /><br />Of course the Instant Singularity may have a hybrid form, a really wacky form with us having somewhat modified minds, somewhat weird societies and activities (all handling smart phones ?) a mix between input and output and activities and all kinds of things (new bodies, sense programs, hybrid Man Rocket Contraptions traveling Space or such ?) it doesn't necessarily entail modifying our brains completely, although and Instant Singularity will always be just one example amongst trillions of possible others, there is no predetermined destiny or path of progress in this, any event and configuration will do, there is no external metaphysical reality waiting to be discovered, we will invent the reality on the go, as we progress, any reality...<br /><br />I AM THE OVERMAN (as imagined by Frank Zappa).<br /><br />12-21-2012 12:1212121212 .... pm THE END IS NEAR<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:37 am<br />SPACE X TIME<br /><br />How big is a computer program ? how much space does it occupy ? or how much time does it occupy ? none or a trillion, it is an Information Relationship, independent from Space and Time (and don't confuse the time with the time it takes to run the program since this is a variable and can be any according to what you run it on, etc.). Time and Space is just a substrate upon which Information Relationships express themselves, but as such, anything can be a substrate to anything else, etc. Each point in space has a local clock time according to how many events occur in that point compared to how many events occur in another point (since only comparisons can be made, no absolutes here, only relative to each other), so some local clocks tick very slowly, very few events occur (that rock under the surface of Mars has been still for many years, etc.), but each point in Space has a clock and potential events could occur, so each point in space is a possibility, but according to time, so Space multiplied Times is the effective size of the universe, each point can host anything and anything can be hosted in any time slot, so Space times Time is the size of the combinational universe, the potential universe, each point in the universe (and which size is the point ?) multiplied a trillion years is the substrate upon which Information Relationships can be expressed, each point multiplied a very long time line, each point disjoint and independent of another, each point in Space multiplied each Time slot in time (or Time Quanta, 10^-100 picoseconds ?) is the substrate available...but you can invent TIME X SPACE X TIME X SPACE X anything you want and create New Science, as everything is a new discovery and absolute truth, everything is 100 completely new, I have discovered new things continuously, a new discovery every moment..<br /><br />But can you saturate all Space and all Time with events, does the fact that points are separate and disjoint limit the number of concurrent events that can occur ? or independent events can occur, or does the distance between points mean a distance of influence and interaction making some events change the events next door and such ? Each point is free to express a set of events...multiply the point in space by how much time it was still or by how much time it occupies doing nothing or by how much time it could be doing something and such...How big is the point ? is a planet a point ? is an electron a point ? multiply each electron times a billion years and that gives you a substrate size upon which events can occur...or multiply a volume of space times a billion years...<br /><br />THE APE CAN<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:41 am<br />From:<br /><br />http://instantsingularity3.blogspot.it<br /><br />and<br /><br />http://instantsingularity1.blogspot.it<br /><br />and<br /><br />http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/10/apocalyptoween.html<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:57 am<br />Justifications for Free Physics<br /><br />1) Infinite reductionism, since everything is made up of everything else (an electron is composed of a universe at a smaller scale, it contains an entire universe, and that universe contains electrons that contains other universes all the way down forever, for infinity etc. and all of the possible combinations of universes are expressed, etc.) then anything is the cause of anything else, all possible causes and effects as expressed as relationships between any two items at all at any point in space and time at any size level, any delimitations etc. (so a rock present on Mars a billion years from now, and a coin in ancient Rome that fell on the floor are the cause for the transistor breaking on that TV set in 1966, and such, all items can be combined and related and all possible causes and effects imagined and invented and forced without the need to respect space or time or logic or sizes or anything as in Free Physics as in Free Jazz, you get the idea...).<br /><br />2) Everything is just a configuration of Mass Energy expressing a combination of particles, of information chunks, as in time travel and going back in the past and living at the same age as your father and such, since there is no need for logical coherence in that the old style time travel imposed the impossibility to be before you were born by imaging some kind of metaphysical constraint that imposed Mass Energy to be organized in successive obligatory steps, whereas it is now known that there is no obligation for Mass Energy and Information configurations to obey any coherence at all, the coherence was just a metaphysical ghost that was never necessary, so now you can be 20 years old and talk to your father who is 20 years old simultaneously since you and your father are just a given arbitrary combination of Mass Energy, a given configuration of Information Relationships that have no obligation to be be coherent or respect an imaginary history, an imaginary imposed succession of events, etc. So even the memories of the two persons and all of the universe as they see it is just a configuration of information in their minds imposing imaginary causes and effects and an imaginary history (but it is all just a memory that has been written to, it is all just a combination of bits in minds imposing an imagined history as history is just a set of bits, a succession of recorded events without any metaphysical or deeper meaning than just simply bits written to memories, with no further reality than just an arbitrary set of bits written to memories, so you can write any other set of bits and they are just as real, etc.).<br /><br />So given that any time travel is possible in that any configuration of Mass energy or Information Relationships representing any time travel to an observer according to what he knows and sees and thinks (going back to New jersey in 1950 for example is exactly the same thing if it is all simulated, if the configuration of Mass Energy corresponding to how New Jersey was in 1950 is exactly replicated, exactly copied, etc., but even more so, if only the Information Relationships as perceived by the Observer is exactly the same, if the resulting experience and perception is indistiguishable from the "real" thing (whatever "real" means anyways since real doesn't really exist)), then any relationship at all between items, any Information Relationship can be always forced, invented, simulated, replicated, no matter how incoherent and far out just like any time travel can be created, invented and made real, nay, even more real than real, if real is 100 you can make it a trillion, hence trillions of times more real and such.<br /><br />So then any two numbers can be decomposed into a set of invented relationships predicting why those numbers are such (just invent it, lie like crazy, be as dishonest and full of lies and full of BS as possible, don't respect the truth, the truth has always been the real lies...) anything has been predicted as prediction is already implicit in the stability of any item, any stability means that a degree of prediction is always already achieved by matter itself) and then why so much importance on prediction anyways (to be on top of the rules ? to avoid problems and such ? but you can assign all problems solved and all predictions you make as true anyways and always win 100 % anyways).<br /><br />I AM THE OVERGOD ( THE ENTITY THAT IS A TRILLION TIMES MORE POWERFUL THAN ANY GOD HIMSELF), CINDERELLA CRAZY, BARBIE CONFUSED, CINDERELLA CANDY...<br /><br /><br />APE CAN<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:11 am<br />From:<br /><br />http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/11/modernity-bites.html<br /><br />Check out:<br /><br />http://instantsingularity1.blogspot.it<br /><br /><br />and<br /><br />http://instantsingularity3.blogspot.it<br /><br /><br />Author Profile Page 8man | November 28, 2012 4:17 AM | Reply<br /><br />and<br /><br />http://instantsingularity.blogspot.it<br /><br /><br />8 men<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:39 am<br />You are extracting something from context in order to predict "IT", whatever "IT" is, as "IT" is a delimitation, a part of something else, a number that connects a property of something to something else, to some other idea, word, relationship, to some other item, as we predict the evolution of items, how they flow from one item into the next, the succession of events, the succession of configurations, of combinations, the next configuration of bits, the next design of symbols, one after another and your prediction jumps past all the intermediate steps and zeros in on the final step (but which is the final ? which is the start and end ? the goal ? the target ? so then you already predicted your prediction ahead of time by assigning the target ahead of time and just making it up, inventing it, creating it, forcing it in the end, as all of our predictions are mostly related to gears and engines, to machines, to mechanisms that we already designed in our mind, hence not "Natural" but "Fake" and "Make Believe From the Beginning").<br /><br />And where does the number start and the item end ? how does the number flow into the item ? how are they separated ? a continuous flow of numbers becoming items becoming events becoming symbols and becoming once again Mass Energy, an item, a chunk of Matter and such.<br /><br />The opposite of infinite reductionism is infinite unrelatedness, everything is completely unrelated to anything else, everything 100 % disjoint, a new invention. And predicting the unrelated is assigning the prediction from the outset. The organic molecule of biology already knows how it will fold, already predicted its future, already knows how it will be, how it operates, so the item contains its future and past within itself... stability and instability, stability needed as a reference point to measure the unstable, to define something that is unknown and must be predicted...but the prediction itself is another item, is another entity, so prediction (in the form of numbers and formulas or whatever) is something that implies that it itself must be stable, an invariant, but a prediction itself is being assigned stable and invariant arbitrarily, it is being delimited from its environment to become something separate from the environment, but who or what defines the separation ? how do we divide ?<br /><br />THE 8 MAN<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:05 pm<br />Who or what predicts the prediction ? what predicts the prediction ? and the prediction of the prediction and so on, the prediction itself occupies Mass Energy and is defined by an abstraction by a Mind Brain - Observer, etc. And if the prediction is expressed by a planet that predicts just a short path of an electron, then you can use an entire universe to predict just a small rock on Mars, just where the wind will blow it and such. And if the two rocks on mars are a representation of a prediction of two numbers on earth ? and if an entire planet is the number expressing a number ? and if it is all put upside down ? the rocks are the numbers, the numbers are what must be predicted and the mountains are the formulas and so forth, all upside down, all conected to all in the most wild ways. An ocean of numbers that are predicted by stars and planets ? and so forth, all of the limits and so forth...<br /><br />THE TOWER, THE TOWER GOD, THE ULTIMATE, THE TRILLION TIMES BETTER THN ANYTHING, THE SUPERTOP, THE FINAL SUPER GOD, ETC.<br /><br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:11 pm<br />Predictions...<br /><br />The prediction itself occupies Mass Energy, Space and Volume, the prediction itself is an event, is an interaction, so there is a prediction that predicted that there would be a prediction relative to some item, entity, event, some need to know some information related to reciprocal items and events for some Observer, like the Observer wanted to predict the exact poistion of a small rock on Mars after a small wind moved it: in order to have the exact position he applied the infinite determinism equations of physics to determine the point where it will stop, and use the formulas and initial positions and such, etc. But the formulas (giant sized formulas, where a simple variable is a planet, and such) themselves occupy space and write over other items that were predicted by other formulas, hence there is a prediction of a prediction, an infinite recursion of predictions predicting each other and themselves and so forth. And what if the electron wants to predict the position of an atom in a star that is 100 million light years away from it, from a given time to 5 hours later, given that the atom is undergoing movements by the hot stellar plasma inside the star ? and what if the electron wants to use planet sized symbols and numbers (numbers that have a design and style that to write them down you need an entire planet, just because, because the electron likes to use large characters and symbols so it is easy for the electron to read it, or numbers that in order to be expressed need an entire planet, there is no other way to show them and design them, what new weird numbers, special numbers, numbers that must be made up of things in order to express themselves, semiabstraction, a mix between abstract and concrete, but what I mean is way more far out and abstract then wnat you are reading or thinking what I mean, and I keep going on with more and more abstractions, impossible to understand concepts, only my Ultra Mind understands them, all of you puny, fairy humans will never reach my infinite level), or the planet itself is the formula, the rocks are numbers and the entire ordeal is predicting numbers, random numbers written by a random will power and so forth.<br /><br />And what if any two numbers correspond to any two rocks, and every number is a new Mass Energy entity, and so forth, predictions that self replicate and such. And if 3 represents the number 3, then what number does a rock represent ? as usual, project extensions, abstract extensions and so forth, 3 is number 3, 4 is the sky, the rock is something else and so forth, and add them all up and so forth, wild formulas and so forth, everything mixed and confused, the more confusion and mixing, the more surprising relationships and unknown mysterious relationships the better.<br /><br /><br />THE ULTRA MIND, THE ULTRA GOD. I AM THE OVERGOD.<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:26 pm<br />From:<br /><br />http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/11/modernity-bites.html<br /><br />Secret Formula...<br /><br />Two numbers: 4.677.8 78.997 the formula that predicted those numbers was composed of a rock on Mars, a mountain on earth, an electron in the center of a star, and 6 events, a cloud that blew through the air on earth 4 million years ago, a car that moved 10 miles now, a rock that will be thrown 500 years from now, and a photon emitted from an atom 2 billion years from now from a star 1 billion light years away (actually the precise time is 2454756709 years from now, and 21 days and 12 months and 2 hours and 4.5467787 seconds) a small wind on venus 5,000 years from now, an earthquake on earth that happened 200 years ago. And there are other formulas, other combinations, other mixtures creating 2 or 3 or millions of numbers, all mixed up time wise, past present and future is irrelevant, the positions in space are irrelevant, there are many wild formulas, many connections, and all disconnected, and so forth. And the two numbers above predict the ocean wave yesterday, the two numbers may also predict the moon, or a stellar plasma, and so forth. And you can mix numbers and predictions and formulas and so forth, all upside down, the numbers are the formulas, the formulas are the numbers and the rocks are predicting the numbers (change the arrows, the cause and effects, rocks -> numbers or numbers -> rocks and so forth), but the numbers are predicting the electrons (so to say, I am thinking of Ultra Abstractions and Ultra Creations, Ultra Inventions and such, Ultra Constructions trillions of times past what even these words seem to say, I am so far out and so far away, I have effectively exited this puny universe and this puny Man Brain and so forth).<br /><br />THE ULTRA GOD<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby nameta9 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:30 am<br />Cause and Effect ?<br /><br />A sequence of rocks on Mars, X Y and Z, if the imaginary time arrow passes through them then they become a sequence of causes and effects (but then just extend the sequence to up to your car tire and then X causes your tire, or your tire may be made up of X, or you can even include the idea of reductionism, everything is composed of everything else, the car tire is made up of Z then Y then X, or any other mixture and other random design the imaginary and very real time arrow makes, make it make a wild design crossing all possible items, each is made up of the other (ever smaller, or even ever bigger, the small item is made up of the big item, if you look at the small item under the microscope you will find the big item, the rock Y under the microscope gives you the car tire, and the car tire under the microscope gives you a star and so forth), X causes Y causes Z, etc. But then if the time arrow changes direction from Z to X, then the opposite is also true, and if the time arrow makes a circle and hits on other rocks, and if the time arrow becomes wide and includes many items concurrently, simutaneously, causes and effects, all mixed up or indeed very precise (but very precise, infinite precision only for an Ultra Mind that understand this type of style), but especially the cause is not a point like event but the entire rock, in parallel causes the other rock, but then all items, just by being in parallel can cause all other items, they are just associations, any painting or picture that has all of the items in it means that those items are associated by an Observer delimiting them and associating them, hence they imply the presence of one itme (no I meant "item", or "time" ? how I love wrongly spelled words, they make all the sense of an idea go out of the windw (window ? or is that a new concept trillion s of times more complex and abstract then ever ?), the (they ?) always expose the truth, how untruth and iun invetnion (inventions ?) all is.) means the presence of another, but you can have a parallel to serial converter (or serial to parallel converter, history all written down in paralle at once, all the events become a solid item, one after another and you can visit them, the events and story become a landscape to visit, no more time here, now it is all available (the myth of the past and the future dies finally!)), an existence to events converter and organize the items as a succession of events, as a series of causes and effects, but you can confuse the causes and events and which is which, and you can have very vague causes (but are they just associations, just items next to each other that make you think they are a cause and effect and a functioin of time ?) you can have completely atomized causes where nothing causes all and all causes nothing and everything in between etc. and very vague mixtures, ever more vague, impossible to understand, mix and confuse and make incoherent, and then make them all infinitely precise and so forth, you get the message...<br /><br />And then extend to include wide parallel time, a volume of time causes a volume of Mass Energy, but it is impossible to follow how, since we invent how, or just mix and redefine all, the rock is TIME and the car tire is SPACE, then what is the transistor in that TV set of 1966 ? and extend and invent, projections ultra abstractions and so forth...<br /><br />THE ULTRA MIND<br /><br />nameta9<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 1642<br /> Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:42 am<br /><br />Top<br />Re: Free Physics (like Free Jazz)<br /><br />Postby Abstract » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:53 pm<br />I'm confused why is this topic in "Science, Technology, and Math" i mean i see the sciencey stuff here and there but then isn't this more of a rant? I'll move it there unless there are any objections...<br />“If he is infinitely good, what reason should we have to fear him? If he is infinitely wise, what doubts should we have concerning our future? If he knows all, why warn him of our needs and fatigue him with our prayers? If he is everywhere, why erect temples to him? If he is just, why fear that he will punish the creatures that he has filled with weaknesses?” — Percy Bysshe Shelley<br /><br />“Religions do a useful thing: they narrow God to the limits of man. Philosophy replies by doing a necessary thing: it elevates man to the plane of God.” ― Victor Hugo<br /><br />“But I’ll tell you what hermits realize. If you go off into a far, far forest and get very quiet, you’ll come to understand that you’re connected with everything.”― Alan Watts<br /><br />User avatar<br />Abstract<br /> Philosopher<br /> <br /> Posts: 3601<br /> Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:19 am<br /> Location: Samsara<br /><br />Top<br />Previous Display posts from previous: Sort by<br />Post a reply<br />42 posts • Page 2 of 2 • 12<br /><br />Return to Science, Technology, and Math<br /><br /><br />Who is online<br /><br />Users browsing this forum: No registered users<br /><br /> Board index<br /> The team • Delete all board cookies • All times are UTC [ DST ]<br /><br />Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group<br />IronMan79http://www.blogger.com/profile/11117778458579053062noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1217974233196772157.post-74193510800692674512012-02-05T07:21:00.000-08:002012-02-05T07:21:13.604-08:00Information Relationship This Masterpiece had been put into the Rant House of www.ilovephilosophy.com:<br />
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Pleas copy and post elsewhere also.<br />
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39 posts • Page 1 of 2 • 12<br />
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Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:46 am<br />
Troll Alert ! Troll Alert! Warning ignore the following blocks of text, they are a Troll.<br />
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Information Relationship<br />
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Definition of Information Relationship: A set of bits (Observer - Processor) interacting with another set of bits (External Reality).<br />
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A set of bits (particles, atoms ? granular chunks of Matter - Mass Energy as distinct moving independent parts interacting and talking to each other) as delimited and defined and assigned as an Observer (a Processor, a brain, or in our case a Man Brain) interacting, colliding, being conditioned by another set of "external" bits, (but external is assigned arbitrarily, there is no in or out, no observer and reality, just a smooth continuous monolithic slab of Matter fooling itself, making believe that it is something else, or something more than what it is, inventing and forcing self delusional relationships upon itself so as to become alive and produce a state of Experience (consciousness, logic, pain/pleasure, you name it), in other words Matter decided to go out and play while it should be sleeping in bed (aka DEAD)) acting as the external reality, the external physical world, the external constraints of an imagined "absolute" physical world acting as the input to the Observer, furnishing signals through sense organs to confirm an external reality (but I have issues with the concept of external reality, since the relationship is not anywhere, is not in any space or time, in any reference system, it is just reciprocally defining itself and interacting with itself, no absolute reference or background hence, there is no external reality, only interactions).<br />
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So an observer - processor can be any set of bits having any kinds of connections amongst themselves, any hard wired connections between some bits or groups of bits and the external reality can interact with the Observer (the chunk of Matter designated to undergo a state of Experience and Existence (phase transition into Matter becomes Experience ?), since experience must have some slight intersections with some slight and vague identity principles and non contradictions)) through another set of bits assigned the role of input; external reality through sense organs.<br />
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So the possible combinations of these bits, the Observer and the External reality defines all possible ways Matter may undergo the phase transition into Experience. Since the observer can be so many different things and combinations and so can the sense organ inputs in terms of representing the external reality, the number of possible new minds, brains, and essentially Information Relationships is truly infinite.<br />
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Just 800 bits, 100 slots of numbers, representing the Observer set of bits can be in 10 ^ 100 different configurations; and a set of 800 bits representing the External Reality can also be in 10 ^ 100 different possible combinations. And the Information Relationship set, the interaction set, the possible - potential interaction set of both groups of bits can be in 10 ^ 200 combinations of possible Experiences and Event states, event phase transitions. And considering that a Man Brain has billions of bits and so does the external reality, you can see how large the combinational state space can really get; and then considering all of the possible delimitations, possible arbitrarily assigned connections between sets of bits both externally and internally, and all the possible rules in terms of cause and effect, or symbols imposed upon the contraption, sequence of signals meanings, possible emotion/feeling/pain/pleasure states, and other ever higher denotations, and indirections and pure inventions, the more wild, impossible and abstract, the more totally incomprehensible and totally mysterious, the better, you can see that there could be trillions upon trillions (a very small number) possible new minds - brains. so the concept of BRANIUM is correct; everything you see and think and anything at all could be the representation of a new brain.<br />
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I was thinking about death, about time, about how the age of a person, born 1950 died 1998 for example conveys a sense of reference system, inserts the dead person in an abstract comforting absolute reference system, the illusion of knowing where you are, knowing where the dead are since they are delimited by symbols, symbols keeping a numerical score of that set of experiences that matter underwent when it was "alive". But interestingly the delimitation and reference system is valid only for another mind reading those symbols, inserting them in a system of knowledge etc. It is not valid for the pebble next to the grave, or to any other chunks of matter you see around you, only for those very rare chunks of point like particles considered alive and conscious and considered Man Brains. But then what makes that different from any other arbitrary make believe invention ? If it weren't arbitrary and make believe all particles of the universe would have to be alive and know what those numbers mean, the system would have to be an absolute reference system but this is not the case. So all of our reference systems are make believe phony constructions, hose them they are all telling us lies and make believes.<br />
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Parallel time dimensions, partial delimitations, multidimensional space, wildly contradictory logic, the goal is to lose yourself and all reference systems and not find yourself anywhere. Even just two bits are infinitely far from each other, totally non related, we force a relationship and look at them as one, as being something but they are both lost forever and infinitely far away from each other and completely disjoint.<br />
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Wow, and who on earth is so insane to actually read that huge pile of drivel, trype and self delusion...?<br />
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nameta9<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:17 pm<br />
Scroll over these blocks of text.<br />
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The entire idea of a parallel universe is not even important since the Information Relationship equivalent to visiting a parallel universe can be assigned and imposed upon matter by the exact same configuration of set of bits that that event would have onto a machine (the Processor ? Observer ? the Man Brain ?) that executes pure Information Relationships (the substrate of the machine and the bits is irrelevant, just the relationship is relevant). So it is with space travel and time travel, you can visit anything simply creating the exact same combination of bits corresponding to the equivalent experience.<br />
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And as a corollary this demonstrates that space and time is irrelevant, there is no external world since the sequence of configuration of bits that transit from point A to point B can be a sequence of different pictures in time, or space, or any other sequence of pictures defined according to any other kind of rule of transportation, even completely new kinds of transits from a picture to the next, not only through time and space, but through X and Y and invent another trillions of new dimensions, transit paths, transit rules (any sequence of pictures can be mapped upon new transit rules and properties, just because) defining new imaginary "external dimensions" hence external worlds, so then we go in the opposite direction, not only does an external world exist, but a hyper external world exists even compared to the standard external world, and so on, hyper hyper external worlds constructed upon the basis of the rules of transit arbitrarily assigned and equivalent to physical dimensions or analogous to physical dimension of extensions like space and time, etc.<br />
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Corresponding correspondence of bits.<br />
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Words are tags, a set of tags is a thought, concept, meanings, but words can be associated to any delimitation of bits (and notice we don't use the words particles or electrons or atoms, as it doesn't matter how matter is subdivided, or how many subparticles may be discovered, a bit is simply a small chunk of matter); but the bit itself can be a macro item, a story, an event, anything, and anything can be defined within and as a part of or being part of anything else. Reductionism no longer applies, something is not composed of something else, or associated with something else, all is just put in a bag, a bag of tags that can be read in any sequence at all, or in parallel, or partly parallel and partly sequentially, you name it. So the composition of a denotation of an indirection doesn't necessarily have to be a sequence of symbols, but a set of tags, like reading a trillion page book in a jiffy, in parallel, etc. Now, what did I want to say ? I don't remember, or maybe I didn't have anything to say ? And why does it matter if some other chunk of matter reads this drivel ? why must something be confirmed in another point of space and time by another observer ? is matter not sure of itself ? does matter need ever more security to really believe that it is valid in more than one mind, that a multitude of Observers, observing and decoding the same or similar things is more comforting for matter that decided to go out and play ? Or wouldn't it be more comforting if every observer was completely different and totally disjoint form any other, a multitude of Information Relationships not communicating.<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:40 am<br />
Uh, oh, someone is sh*ting on the Internet Again...<br />
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Please scroll past these blocks of texts. Please erase all of my posts from the Internet. Please erase the Internet. Thank you.<br />
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The transition from fixed brain to variable brain (the brain is no longer an independent variable) from the invariant word we live in to the new invariant world for the new world the new brain lives in disconnects the two universes from each other: history no longer exists, space and time no longer exist, the two affairs are disjoint, cannot communicate between each other because they are not supposed to, by definition, the two things having nothing to do with each other. And so, even in this case we see how our arbitrary structures, history, space and time and all of memory segments designing reality are just toys, are just signs written on a slab of matter to make believe that they are somehow real, that they correspond to some absolute reference system when all they are are make believe crystallization of rules and experiences so as to furnish a constant path of navigation of reality to the experiencing brain and nothing more; as the brain gradually transits from one design to another, from one configuration to a new configuration it cannot follow its own transformations, it must relinquish control and it must stop being a free will gadget: it doesn't know who or what designed its invariant parts, something external, outside, something independent from it designed it, but that independence is disconnected from its internal memory hence reference system and so it always has a partial view of the universe, nay, there is no global view, only so many different partial views since in order to see the entire view it would have to be a variable brain gradually transforming itself into all possible brain designs and remembering all the paths necessary to obtain each new brain designing and comparing them to what ? to nothing, since you always have to arbitrarily choose which memory segment will become the invariant, the reference system.<br />
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As a new design is produced and that brain still contains a free will gadget that is in relinquish mode, it is unaware of its past history, of its origin and story as understood in the designing brains reference system ( but just like we will be always unaware of the past history that designed our brain as understood in "Natural Evolution's" reference system (and how can blind forces have a reference system ? wow that must be so totally disjoint from us!)).<br />
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Each memory sign is a new reference system to which each new memory sign will be compared to and will reinforce a virtual make believe "reference system" to which that brain - Matter Undergoing Experience is anchored to; the memory segment, no matter how long, how perfect, how well tuned and synchronized to the pain/pleasure/feelings/cause and effects that arbitrarily designed contraption possesses, is always just a short story, only a partial story, so partial that the length of the story is vanishingly small, as the number of combination of new possible brains is so huge.<br />
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So when you go to the cemetery and see born 1944 died 1978 remember that that is just a short memory segment as defined by our reference systems: that slab of matter was never born and never died, never lived in any geographical position and never even lived, we are just petting our memory.<br />
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And as you see, I am like the first DNA molecule, the first molecule to which then all the other molecules of life evolved to: the idea of the brain becoming a variable is like the first DNA molecule of life: it will open up so many new universes, but also close ours up forever and forever shatter all of our certainties as no certainty will ever be possible again, unless you erase you memory, which can be done and should be done since the memory sings creating reference systems are simply a kind of write only memory: anything can be written to your or that or any memory and create a new reference system and anything can become absolutely true or false or anything at all.<br />
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I know, I understand, would you relinquish control and stick chips in your brain ? would you choose to end you existence as a free will gadget ? no way jose' ! we (or you ? or it ?) are our reference system, we are our memory and rules of engagements and interactions, etc. By sticking wild stuff inside the contraption we have at the top end of our body we would become something else, or something unknown and who wants that ?!?! but it has been done, everything you see is a modified brain as in Brainium, or it is being done gradually with all of these electronic gadgets surrounding us, or maybe it started as soon as we started writing down our memory and as soon as we started executing abstract logic upon the material world.<br />
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But this is simply the end result of thousands of years of increased rationality: sooner or later reason and rationality will want to dismantle itself to see what is inside of itself, it is the natural outcome of our present universe, as our universe is only us using and describing it and nothing else.<br />
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Now, is that what I wanted to say ? I don't even remember.. and I thought I had something else to say, a whole bunch of other things to say, but I get confused and forget or remember something that I never thought in the first place, and I loose a lot of these blocks of text, I erase them and they go away...<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:25 am<br />
Please scroll past these blocks of texts. Please erase all of my posts from the Internet. Please erase the Internet. Thank you.<br />
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Indirection<br />
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Be cryptic, be hard to understand, dazzle and confuse people, make it seem as if you are saying something deep (what a joke, deep doesn't and can't exist as all is a segment of logic, a set of associations, a sequence of symbols, hence a painting, a picture nothing else) making it seem as if you know oh, so much more, you have constructed complex logical segments that have made you see through all and understand all: in essence make them worship a logical segment that they cannot understand fully, as that is what we all want, something that is unclear and mysterious, that leaves open the door to some further, deeper, unknown and therefore more exciting and adventurous and mysterious meanings that can imply so many other things and activities and behaviors and causes and effects and possible pain/pleasure segments and sequences, etc.<br />
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The indirection starts from birth since you have to become aware that an outside world exists with its logical consequences, the first and strongest indirection, something that exists although you don't touch it (strange I said that ? but touch is the most concrete thing between baby and mommy, actually that is the real justification and reinforcing of all other more abstract and indirect pain/pleasure events!), is your mommy and all the interactions with this thing outside of you starts to create a complete logical map, you realize that you are not some independent purely subjective entity that is sufficient of itself and can live in a bubble of its own self, it needs to and starts to interact with external signals and symbols and behavioral patterns, you start to know that that thing outside of you is similar to you in some ways, and you slowly learn that it is like you just different and just a multiple image of yourself, another version of another contraption that has pain/pleasure/logic/cause and effect, etc. And so the master denotations and indirections and signals and symbols become engraved on the Man Brain and its memory and behavioral pattern circuits, etc.<br />
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Like an atom, an electron and nucleus already have a slight indirection they know that they are a reciprocal reference system to each other, each defines the other in terms of how they are related and how they are hard wired to interact and behave between each other. Each becomes aware that the other is outside of itself, is an external chunk (of logical segment ?) of matter, and indirect external world where they don't touch but know that each other are there otherwise matter would disintegrate. But it has very few degrees of freedom within which to move whereas interactions between complex large chunks of matter like people have many degrees of freedom within which to move and interact (and you can see how the limits of degrees of freedom becomes a variable from one extreme to another and can be anything in between and anything can be set up as an indirection to anything else, etc.). And that is the indirection, you know that something outside is there, but you cannot touch it, but through contorted signals the something outside can respond and deliver some small events of pain/pleasure and such, and you project your own pain/pleasure on the outside device and feel for it, you become aware of the importance of that other devices pain/pleasure but it is just a ghost an indirection since when you fight a war you disconnect those logical circuits and go with it carelessly (or when you fight your "enemy", as friend and enemy are designated only through logic, logic is what defines our reference system but logic disintegrates itself if pushed to the limits of itself).<br />
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I saw the priest talk about Jesus and he loves you and you love him and so on, he was completely worked up on all of this insane BS, he was worshiping a logical segment, a sequence of symbols, a set of associations, not the content of his words, which really have and are no content, but just as the first denotations justify themselves, so do all the others, ever more detached and abstract, ever more degrees of freedom, ever more possible associations, meanings, abstractions all connected to imaginary (and occasionally real pain/pleasure events as to become finally real, as the only thing that is not a denotation is the pain/pleasure event, not all the rules and logical segments and rules of engagements necessary to obtain small pain/pleasure events).<br />
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And when you contradict the religious types they will reply: do you love your children and things like that as to say, do you believe in an indirection ? how can you believe in something invisible ? if you believe in that indirection than you can and must believe in the other indirection that god exists, that other people exist, that good and bad exists. Or also, if you believe arbitrarily in one indirection how do you justify not believing in any other, no matter how far out, indirection ? because you choose to believe in A and not in B, but it is not justified in any way, it is an arbitrary choice not based on anything at all but your free will and random, fluke quirk choice that has no better or deeper value than the choice of believing in god.<br />
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If one indirection exists and is justified then all of them are justified, if one indirection is operating all of them are operating and each can reinforce each other, you believe in god, hence in good and bad hence in helping the poor and so on and each becomes a tag of a logical segment reinforcing itself, worshiping itself as indirection really means worshiping some special logical segment but most of all we worship logic, the association, the cause and effect (and the confirming occasional events of pain/pleasure (and the further occasional invented pain/pleasure events in terms of internal feelings and emotions? but these are really make believe arbitrary connections with no justification whatsoever)) and how it is connected to outside elements and events and entities, we are constantly fascinated and dazzled by how logic makes us clearly interpret and decode indirections.<br />
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Of course all is logic, in war you kill someone, another will power gadget, another person, but you don't kill your son, but the difference between them is all based on the principle of identity and non contradiction: you are not going to get confused and make a mistake between an unknown soldier and someone you "love", and yet the action is simply the elimination of another human with all that that should mean in terms of denotations and values: and yet, it is ok, we create and reinforce differences, we worship our subjectivity (that is what everyone does, so it is a rule of engagement of society).<br />
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That was from:<br />
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http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/01/murmuration.html<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:46 pm<br />
The idea that Modified Brains imply a new Universe with new laws of Physics is a kind of extreme Anthropic Principle. In this model, the universe is only the way Matter is decoded by another organization of Matter, there is no view from nowhere, there is no external objective observer and view, all views are 100 % subjective as dependent on an entity that appears invariant (the Man Brain - the Observer - the Processor) as compared to all the variants ("external" signals and symbols and sense organ inputs) that entity interacts with, but it is itself a variant, although frozen in a fixed configuration so as to be the "Measure of Everything".<br />
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This kind of extreme Anthropic Principle implies that essentially, There is no "External Reality" (or Matter, or World), there is no Inside and Outside with regards to Matter in general, only a subdivision of Matter in a chunk assigned as Inside and a chunk assigned as Outside, a delimitation of one chunk of Matter is Inside (the Observer) and another chunk as Outside (the place from nowhere from which all the signals arriving at the Observer come from); in other words the Observer cannot be separated and placed in some kind of place from nowhere where it can make believe that it is "Objective", Matter cannot arbitrarily be divided into two parts only because it seems so convenient from our point of view: reductionism doesn't work anymore at a higher and more general level of abstraction that now includes the mind itself as a variable, it is now either all or nothing, either you admit that the Observer is not independent from its substrate and design and arbitrary situation in which it finds itself or that the Observer is some metaphysical - abstract - spiritual entity looking at the universe from the "Outside"...<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:57 pm<br />
Within this framework it can be said that Science is Wrong. That's it. I said it. Science is Wrong from the outset, what we do have is a local logical segment that is sufficient for our uses, we have found the many repetitive patterns and have found out how to apply them (and we may find others in the future), but the Metaphysical - Spiritual - Abstract properties that we apply to Science are Wrong. There is no "Objective Reality" and "Objective Science" or "Set of Patterns" as applied to an "External Reality" such that justifies this other new subtle form of Religion: as even Science has properties of Religions, the faith factor, the belief factor, only in this case you have faith in logic and reasoning and you believe that reality is outside of yourself, that the Observer is independent of the Observed, that the Observer can be separated from the Observed: nothing further from the truth, there is no way to split the Observer from the Observed, it is all one, a confusing monolithic slab of Matter, nay, symbols talking to themselves.<br />
In fact Science tries to find repetitive patterns by comparing things to what it already knows, by formatting new events, patterns, causes and effects, observations into the language and words and symbols it has already created: the past conditions the future in this sense, the memory of what you already know creates the reference system, reality is just the memory of all you have seen and all the patterns you are used to and have been solidified into expectations where very few really surprising events can happen. And as such since the Universe is only the way Matter is decoded by another organization of Matter, and since Matter is only Information Relationship Events, hence Symbols, it is more correct to say the Universe is only the way a set of Symbols are decoded by another set of Symbols.<br />
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What does probability have to do with it ? It is said that there is a probability that your quantum atoms align up in such a way that you can walk through walls, or there is one chance in a very large number that atoms just align up and make a dead man live again for maybe a week and such. Do we expect such things to happen ? Not really, but they are not 100 % excluded from what official Science tells us. And that is the point: if these things can happen, and they can, then anything can happen (and even if they can't, it doesn't matter), there is no longer any need to explain anything; the event is the explanation, it needs no further investigation, the observation is the science and the explanation, science becomes a very short story, it is only that which we see, the entire idea of explaining, relating, connecting a long chain of causes and effects and such is no longer necessary, the simplest explanation is no explanation.<br />
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So how did Natural Evolution create the first living cell and a Man ? No explanation, it just happened, end of story, the very long complex number that created the end point is just a number that has been selected out of a very large bag of numbers just because, for no reason at all.<br />
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And in fact, No Reason at All is the Best Reason Possible, No Reason at all, Just Because, It is just a randomly assigned number.<br />
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And such for anything else: does God exist ? I don't know, but if yes he exists For No Reason at All, just because. Does anything else, no matter how wild and insane exist ? I don't know, but if it does it exists For No Reason at All, just because. But even saying I don't know does not really do justice to the idea that Science is Wrong: we must take it further, and leave the entire concept of "truth" behind as it implies external realities, true and false, imaginary spiritual properties entities have and such so we can say: Does anything at all exist ? Yes, anything at all exists (an oldsmobile that is a brain and talks to little children) everything exists For No Reason at All, just because.<br />
And taking it even further does nothing at all exist, is everything a temporary ghost and illusion ? Yes, nothing exists For No Reason at All, just because.<br />
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Coincidences, no matter how specific and far out no longer need to be explained. They just exist and happen.<br />
Last edited by nameta9 on Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:50 pm<br />
To clear a point up : the reason why the Universe is a set of symbols decoded by another set of symbols is also (amongst other more abstract reasons) because our reference system in terms of logic, cause and effects, patterns and especially the memory of all that knowledge (as has been established by Science and the Man Brain's accumulative knowledge) is a kind of fixed language, fixed formal system of symbols decoded by other symbols and defined according to other symbols etc. synchronized and associated according to how we interact with "External" Matter. But since all of this is just Matter talking to itself, therefore symbols talking to themselves, it cannot be considered really objective, but in fact the exact opposite; the most extreme subjectivity possible, as it is just like a large number assigned for No Reason at All, Just because, and something totally arbitrary and random is something totally subjective and outside of the process of our imaginary Objective Science.<br />
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As a small correction of a block of text above:<br />
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This kind of extreme Anthropic Principle implies that essentially, There is no "External Reality" (or Matter, or World), there is no Inside and Outside with regards to Matter in general, only an ARBITRARY subdivision of Matter in a chunk assigned as Inside and a chunk assigned as Outside, an ARBITRARY delimitation of one chunk of Matter is Inside (the Observer) and another chunk as Outside (the place from nowhere from which all the signals arriving at the Observer come from); in other words the Observer cannot be separated and placed in some kind of place from nowhere where it can make believe that it is "Objective", Matter cannot arbitrarily be divided into two parts only because it seems so convenient from our point of view.<br />
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As a corollary Science does exactly this: it arbitrarily separates the Observer from the Observed, although Quantum Physics started having issues with this...<br />
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And Wow, I think I am starting to take myself too seriously with all of this...<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:44 pm<br />
Interesting to see how something dead is anything you see, any combination of objects you see, since everything you see is dead (in the sense at least of not having self consciousness at least as far as we can tell ? ...), but only one very specific organization of matter, configuration of matter, combination of matter is alive and that is Man (or better the process of his Man Brain interacting with his external reality, etc.(but didn't I say that there is no external reality ? yeah, but I fooled, you, ha, ha, ha (lose any hope in trying to find coherence and non contradiction in all my BS))). So imagine what could be all the intermediate steps ? imagine a limit of matter going from dead to alive (but not in our scientific or biological sense, in an imaginary metaphysical sense) look at all the dead things outside of you and imagine combinations of them that become a little self aware and so on, an entire linear scale, and then maybe the scale can go even further in both directions more dead than dead, more alive than alive, so if dead is 0 (but corresponds to trillions of different objects) and alive is 100 and corresponds to only one, imagine the scale going from minus a trillion to plus a trillion and each state of existence (from super dead to super alive but much more, etc.) can correspond to trillions of different objects, combinations of matter, etc.<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:22 pm<br />
From:<br />
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http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/01/murmuration.html<br />
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Science is worth zero because it is dependent on an imaginary invariant, the Man Brain, it is only valid within the process of interactions that a Man Brain can have with its environment hence it is only a local logical segment: a real objective science would have to investigate all possible Man Brain permutations and designs and rules of interactions with all possible memory organizations, emotion and pain/pleasure circuits, logics, sense organs, you name it: obviously the number of different kinds of Man Brains (or simply Processors, Observers ) possible is astronomical hence even investigating many and many, the amount of Real Science that we could write down is always vanishingly small, hence it is the entire idea of Science that is false and wrong.<br />
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It only works in our puny world, so then any set of symbols that are assigned to process any other set of symbols is a completely new universe with a completely new science, etc.<br />
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Design your new Science, make it wildly interesting, design your make believe, don't be shy, we are only at the beginning of Real Science...<br />
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TOBOR AN 8 MAN<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:33 am<br />
So going back to the idea that everything is dead except you, then you are the invariant particle as compared to all of the dead variant particles, an invariant in a sea of variants, could also be a definition of an Observer, a Processor: but since that invariant has a free will gadget attached to it, it sees and uses all the variants as tools, as items to manipulate, as words to put together within its language constructing a syntax according to its random, arbitrarily assigned numbers associated to its completely random and arbitrary free will decisions.<br />
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But if there a number of point like multiples - instances of the same invariant (a Man Brain for example) within a sea of variants (all the dead points of a volume of space time and all of its possible combinations even if disjoint and separated in disconnected spatial and temporal chunks) you can imagine all of the possible combinations and degrees of variants and invariants point like or diffused, having multiple instances of the same or similar invariants or / and many different invariants (a sea of different designs of Man Brains - a monolithic slab of substance designated as BRAINIUM, that which everything you see conceive, invent, all signals and symbols and sense inputs and pictures and designs are new kinds of brains) and variants that are gradually becoming invariants (hence all dead items that are slowly becoming processors or contraptions that resemble a Man Brain), just like a solid state crystal with each vertex having an atom on it within a sea of electrons (in this case each atom is a brain, or even different new brain designs) or an ocean with each atom of water being a brain or vice versa, each atom of water is the dead variant and the forces moving them are the brains, and so on, every conceivable configuration and mix between dead and alive brains and tools, variants and invariants and maybe transforming themselves into each other constantly or reciprocally becoming a variant and an invariant between each other and all others, and all possible combinations of such entities you can imagine...<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:47 am<br />
Interesting to see the difference between Theoretical Physics and Philosophy - Metaphysics:<br />
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Theoretical Physics:<br />
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Essentially states How far can we take logical and mathematical structures and still make them somehow be tied up to the real physical world, still have some kind of connection, even though very weak or indirect with physical reality ? An example could be Superstring Theory.<br />
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Philosophy and Metaphysics:<br />
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Essentially states How far can logical and mathematical structures be pushed operating on items as far removed as possible from the physical world, items as abstract, absurd and impossible as possible, hence having zero connection to the real physical world, but still being connected to each other though any form of logic, mathematical or thought processes and sequences ? An example could be the invention of a new state - meaning - concept expressing it as "the square root of the word thought".<br />
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But whereas the theoretical physicist and also the mathematician still has some constraints upon what he can do by some connection, no matter how weak, with the real world, or at least with some possible logic that is somewhat non contradictory and that somewhat still must follow some sense, the metaphysical and philosophical "Inventor" no longer has any constraints whatsoever, is free to investigate anything at all, make up any connections he wants, invent anything he wants, doesn't have any possible constraint operating upon his tasks. But then items as contradictory and absurd as possible can always be connected to each other or invented, just their existence, their delimitation in our mind, their presence already provides them with a minimum of logical and mathematical structure as in order to exist, in order to contain them in our mind, in order to even speak about them they must at least follow the basic principles of identity and non contradiction..<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:19 pm<br />
You can see it as a kind of Content Invariant Machine: it operates the same mental computer program, the same operations (non contradiction, identity principle, some others ?) on any content at all: a Content Independent Machine that generates new content from mixing and matching and combining other older content: only that Theoretical Physics uses content that is somewhat tied to something somewhat real, Metaphysics uses any content at all, nay, the nature of the content is irrelevant, but the more colorful, far out, wild, absurd, the more the content teases our logic and our "Normal and Common Way of Looking at the World", the better, the more fun Metaphysics can have juggling the oddest possible content and processing it in the oddest possible way, just for fun, just to have fun, just because, "For No Reason at All".<br />
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And, as usual, you can extrapolate the two limiting tasks, put it on a scale, and say that if Theoretical Physics is 10 and Metaphysics is 50, then what is 23 ? what is minus 2000 ? what is plus a trillion and so on, extend and challenge, invent and create, forever (and then, is that scale digital or linear ? is that a gradual transformation of what tasks into another or does each number correspond to something completely different from anything we can conceive and Contain in Our Mind ?...).<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:13 pm<br />
Alarm! Alarm! Warning! Warning! Mental Disaster Area ! TILT ! PLease Ignore these kinds of Posts. Thank You.<br />
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Words as Logic ?<br />
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The fact that the Grand Unified Theory of Everything is being sought after in terms of Mathematics and Logic, structure instead of words is interesting. And very strange since words are much more powerful than any possible mathematical structure (although it seems that one can be formatted and translated into the other in some way), can be many times more abstract since for example in Mathematics you do not have anything that can represent the following application of logic to words: The Square root of the Word "Thought" multiplied the word "Space" Divided by the limit of the word "Forward" for the word "Sky" tending to the word "Absolute".<br />
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So ((Thought ^1/2) * Space)/(limit Sky -> Absolute of Forward).<br />
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Now what can that mean ? How is that related to anything else ? How many inventions of this kind are possible and how many other abstract complex absurd structures as such can be invented, etc. But especially, the very fact that words are ambiguous, are not very precise, can mean and be applied in so many different ways, you can make them change meanings, suggest something but then peedle back, you can lie, deceive, you can do a lot with words and such.<br />
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And especially, words seem closer to how a modifed brain would like to process concepts, wildly modified brains having parallel circuits, confusion all connected in very odd networks of understanding and experiences and such. And then compare that to the one bit logic mathematical structures imply as compared to metaphysical boldly and proudly fake and artificial and lying and deceiving structures composed of words.<br />
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As a test, could anybody write down the mathematical equivalent of the above blocks of text ? You see, you would have to assign too many arbitrary symbols having arbitrary meanings, so the entire deal of mathematical precision would be void of substance.<br />
<br />
The Grand Unified Theories will be composed of mental structures expressed in very much more abstract items than words or sentences: and then the entire program of Science is False from the outset, it wants explanations, it wants relationships between things, it wants more symbols than are necessary (and why, what is the end reason ? the "Intentionality of Use" ? to solve problems ? to execute new experiences ? but these can be achieved directly modifying the Man Brain and directly obtaining anything you want).<br />
<br />
So when they ask: why these equations (of physics) and not others ? the reply should be: Just Because, for No Reason at all. No reason is the Best Reason and also the Simplest Reason. Those equations were just a wild number chosen randomly, that is all.<br />
<br />
You can also reply why not those equations ? why not anything ? why not accept what random chaos gave us for free without any further explanation or deeper relationships ? Why should there be any further relationships ? And even if we find millions, at a certain point they must end, or maybe we want them to go on forever ? (We can always force them to go on forever...)<br />
<br />
Also because a reply different from that would generate an infinite regression of symbols, other questions and answers, a never ending sequence of symbols until finally you have to assign an end point, and at the end point you must assign some final Symbol which really means No Symbol at All, No reason at all.<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:12 am<br />
...<br />
Also because a reply different from that would generate an infinite regression of symbols, other questions and answers, a never ending sequence of symbols until finally you have to assign an end point, and at the end point you must assign THE LAST SYMBOL which really means No Symbol at All, No Reason at All.<br />
<br />
...<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:14 pm<br />
Alarm! Alarm! Warning! Warning! Mental Disaster Area ! TILT ! Please Ignore these kinds of Posts. Thank You.<br />
<br />
Extreme Subjectivity is the Only Science<br />
<br />
In a sense, it is the entire process of Abstraction that is being questioned: we go from the particular, to the general, eliminating information that is not pertinent to the model. And we generalize, get rid of quirk "initial conditions" and quirk "single cases", and set quirk arbitrary fixed parameters (speed of light, mass of electron, etc.) from measurements without questioning them in order to go forward, in order to find that which is in common between many different instances of similar events, repetitive patterns, etc.<br />
<br />
In short we try to eliminate forms of subjectivity, the specific details of specific experiences, the never ending amount of information needed to describe something real, that is happening, some real configuration of matter in which it finds itself in.<br />
<br />
And this is the general program of Science: but as soon as you start to change the design and manipulate that which has always been invariant, and namely the Observer, The Processor, the Man Brain and start putting the emphasis on specific experiences such a newly designed Man Brain can undergo, we go in a completely different direction from where Science has always been going: we accept, in a sense, that there are no more generalizations operating, only instantaneous point like events occurring by matter being set up in some unique and arbitrary configuration (random events occurring in a specific point in space and time) and self manipulating, talking to itself, interacting with itself, exchanging Information Relationships within itself.<br />
<br />
And of course, generalizations and abstractions presuppose a common ground, and common reality, something a multitude of similar Observers have in common, the common way they interact and behave and the communication amongst them: but in a modified brain, common ground is no longer there and you can have a multitude of similarly modified brains exchanging some forms of communication, but you cannot know if they perceive a common "external reality" amongst themselves: and then who says that there must be multiple copies of similar man brains ? there could be many different specific, one time designs, it is just as good, there are no longer "Objective Rules" or "Intentionalities of Use" to follow (aside from the fact that multiple instances of a specific Man Brain (like ours and our Society) can be assigned as just one specific design of a Man Brain diffused in space and time and connected through communications of symbols and denotations and the imaginary "common external world" instead of being connected by hard wires in direct neural circuits in a small volume like any other specific design that is local and sufficient for itself ( a solid state civilization ?)).<br />
<br />
In short, that which our present Science eliminates from "Science", and namely subjectivity, actually becomes the only and total Science (Extreme Subjectivity as the only possible rules of engagements with Reality, hence all kinds of lies and self delusions are actually more real than any reality we have ever experienced) possible in Modified Man Brains, new designs of the Observer, new designs of the Processor...<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:07 pm<br />
[blink]Alarm! Alarm! Warning! Warning! Mental Disaster Area ! TILT ! [/blink]<br />
<br />
Please Ignore these kinds of Posts. Thank You.<br />
<br />
But that is the point: Reality is only Pure Subjectivity, Extreme Subjectivity, nothing else, no one else exists, you are finally your own boss, be yourself, don't have any kinds of considerations anymore (OTHER PEOPLE DON'T EXIST, USE THEM AS A TOOL, THEY ARE JUST DEAD PROCESSORS IN A SEA OF DEAD PROCESSORS TRYING TO "CONDITION" YOU), don't be part of a circuit, be you own circuit, be your own Solid State Civilization: as the way our Man Brains are presently configured, we are like a diffused multiprocessor system (each person is a similar but distinct processor) and the data bus is the external reality, the communications and the sense organs inputs etc. But this is just a machine, and we are just a processor in a multiprocessor machine, but the entire machine as such is a single entity, a single monolithic slab of matter (the ball of matter of the earth with these puny processors interacting on its surface, go figure) : So just remove yourself from the machine and be your own universe, you can do it, go man go, do it...(Also because if you "Abstract" away the apparent, but virtual separate processors and just consider them all as just one entity, which they really are, then you see that the entire ball of matter of the earth with these processors on its surface is just a single Man Brain, a specific design of Man Brain simply occupying way more space, time and items than are necessary: you could probably condense the entire equivalent Information Relationship Ensemble of our Civilization into a small cube measuring one meter across, in width and height (1 M^3 of volume) assign it as a specific new Man Brain, and hence just as one of many trillions of other possible new designs of Man Brains: hence you just decide that you are a new specific design of Man Brain as opposed and different from that one meter cubed monolithic cube of interactions, you become your own Solid State Civilization and you make up all the rules and "Science").<br />
<br />
The entire program of Science and Objectivity is based on simply being part of an artificial machine that has no higher value, or metaphysical value or necessity than your own self programmed as wickedly as you want: for you to participate within the machine you must learn all the rules of engagements and all the Objective rules of Interaction both with other processors and with the communication formats entering you as an Observer, but especially the rules of interaction and engagements with those communication bits according to fixed internal Mental Programs incrementing the pleasure circuit events as opposed to the pain circuit events according to the reference system of pain/pleasure guiding the behavioral and interaction and output/input choices the processor executes.<br />
<br />
And then, there is no higher or metaphysical or Spiritual or Abstract value of Objectivity as opposed to Subjectivity: they are simply different choices of interactions, they are just one and the same, only one has to follow rules of decency and constraint (and the rules of communication and somewhat survival (as defined simply as lasting as long as possible and avoiding executing too many pain circuits)), the other is mostly free of most rules.<br />
<br />
TILT ! TILT !<br />
<br />
TOBOR ATE MAN<br />
<br />
TILT ! TILT !<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:19 pm<br />
From:<br />
<br />
http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/01/murmuration.html<br />
<br />
They reply:<br />
<br />
"I'm a human being, damn it! We are social animals. We are not isolated processors. We are not lonely islands to ourselves. We are human beings, damn it!"<br />
<br />
"OTHER PEOPLE DON'T EXIST, USE THEM AS A TOOL...<br />
if they don't exist, how can you use them<br />
this type of philosophic sounding diarrhea gets you exactly to what state/accomplishment?<br />
it's merely endless loop rubbish, you will be spouting this till 3099 A.D. to no effect."<br />
<br />
I answer:<br />
<br />
Ok guys, I take it all back: I was all wrong, I am wrong, please erase all of my posts, erase all of those kind of posts, you all have win, I am a loser, a sore loser. End of Story.<br />
<br />
<br />
To Juletta who says "My husband and I have six children. Five boys and one girl."<br />
<br />
I answer:<br />
<br />
Hey Juletta:<br />
<br />
Pray, tell me, how do you manage economically to have 6 children ? Does your husband make a lot of money ? I am only asking because of a comment I read on another website (the one above of the ex-socialist who says that there are "loads of jobs", etc.), and so just to have a feel of how varied the "real economy" really is...<br />
<br />
May I venture to guess ? I phanthom you have a few houses rented out and make good cash there, you both came from families with some cash and have inherited some houses, your husband is a doctor and makes more than 200,000 dollars a year, and you are a stay at home mom...<br />
<br />
Just curious, I am always amazed at people that have more than two kids, how on earth do they ever pull it off money wise!?!?!<br />
<br />
<br />
You have a pretty name, I bet you are hot !...Do you want to be my girlfriend ? Pretty Please ? I promise I will not talk about my insane theories...Pretty Please ? Or better yet, be my Mommy, I need a Mommy more than anything else (and a Spanking!), you already have six kids, what's one more extra ? just leave me playing in the backyard with my imagination, while you cook in the kitchen...<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:48 pm<br />
It is in fact the fight between theories and details, abstractions and all the little details of reality: and in fact both Science and Religion and Thought itself with all of its models, predictions, the perfectly under control world of rules with no surprises that is then always contradicted by the random details of reality: the same reason why Communism doesn't work is the same reason why Capitalism doesn't work or the Global Economy doesn't work: on paper and in theory everything is under control and predictable, in reality there are a never ending array of contrasting, contradictory and contradicting forces going in all directions and always contradicting your model, your prediction, your perfectly under control world in the comfort of your mind. And so it is with Physics,its equations are perfect except try to predict the next wave on a shore, the perfect equations don't work anymore because you need too many initial conditions and there are no analytical solutions to non linear partial differential equations; same with the three body problem.<br />
<br />
A kind of balance, the more the theory is abstract and can predict reality the less details are present in it, but the less it can be applied to a concrete reality; whereas the more details you observe and include in a descrition, model or theory the less they can predict, the more you are just dealing with an observation and measurement. But Modified Minds can extend the entire range; from extreme random details only to extremely perfectly theoretical contraptions.<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:28 am<br />
[blink]Alarm! Alarm! Warning! Warning! Mental Disaster Area ! TILT ! [/blink]<br />
<br />
Please Ignore these kinds of Posts. Thank You.<br />
<br />
<br />
Enemy of Science<br />
<br />
Thought is the Sickness, Measurement and Observation is the cure. In a sense, there is a reason why Natural Evolution didn't develop Intelligent Thoughtful minds always finding and establishing Patterns: because it would have been useless, in Nature it is the Details, Random, the often totally unpredictable or at best the probabilistic (with no guarantee of precision) that is operating. Animals, insects, fishes are in an environment of constant change, constant threats, constant surprises, no need to develop models here, only what happens momentarily and if you momentary survive win or lose counts and that is just a pure chance guessing game. The details are all there is. The history of what happened is all there is, there is nothing deeper, no other patterns to discover and use. But in another sense Natural Evolution was the process that discovered all useful repetitive patterns and possible "Intentionalities of Use" without having to think about it, the accumulation and crystallization of all of those patterns in a coherent whole, but always ready to throw it all away and start over, always just a temporary stability surely destined to be overthrown by Detail, Random, pure Chance. And our Science with the accumulation of its laws is somewhat similar as a process although our Science ends up being mostly a toy we use for ourselves and tied deeply into a specific, culture and value system although we are unaware of this (you have to desire and consider rockets a valuable goal before you produce Rocket Science and such...)<br />
<br />
And with Thought comes Science and its Models, Abstractions, its desire to make you be on top of something, the constant comparison of reality against your models, and the constant frustration of seeing all the discrepancies, how reality always contradicts you, always makes fun of your models and ideas and general Laws that are operating: as if we are constantly just looking at our Models and General Laws and How the World Should be because our Model Imposes that the World should be like that, as if we are always looking at our models and imaginary general laws and getting angry at the world for disobeying what we think is Right, metaphysically and spiritually correct.<br />
<br />
But this mistake all came from far away and this mistake saturates almost all we think: all of our Indirections and Symbols and Denotations are anchored to models of reality, they are all belief systems, abstractions of reality from the details and what happens and how random and free reality is compared to what we would like and think: this sickness is called Religion and God and it is called Science, since they both love their Mental Models, their Laws, the containing of reality in the comfort zone of your mind.<br />
<br />
Abstraction eliminate details and tries to find the general and then assigns that general as the Law, the Master Pattern, but Reality is actually only the details, it is not a comfortable mental model, the mental model illusion that makes us think that we are on top of things, that we can somehow control them if we have a platonic mathematical mental model of reality. But it is not so, it is only the details that make up reality, only the measurements, only the random: point in case, what is the equation that predicts the exact form of a given mountain ? Oh, you will say that we have "General Equations" that predict how they are formed, we know what is going on (just like in Natural Evolution, the general rules, but then the real debate is on exactly what sequence of events lead to the first living cell and in this case the number of random details and events is so high that no mental model, no "Scientific Explanation" will probably ever come close to really explaining it (but even this sentence is a Mental Model, and Abstraction that wants to make believe that it is True, since abstractions make believe that they are true by just declaring themselves, so I MAY BE WRONG and that is 100 % OK)), but then we will have to assign initial conditions, measurements and so many other variables and things that in the end the model reveals itself for what it is: just a comfortable way to contain that which is uncontainable in a limited device as our Man Brain to make us feel that we are in control, on top if it. And anyways, our perfect models of reality, our mathematics breaks down immediately just as soon as you have to calculate the three body problem: that is nature that is trying to us something.<br />
<br />
But Science does work and is effective when we need to design an Engine for example, we only have blind forces opposing us as opposed to Free Will Gadgets: and also because engines and chips and many other items are all within a very strictly controlled environment the goals that they have to achieve are very clear, etc. Compare that to economy, politics and sociology where so many random fluke and quirk positive and negative feedback loops are operating (and in these cases the Observer is also the Observed, you get the idea).<br />
<br />
And the models in economy for example are always forcing cause and effect: like in economy they want to force the idea that more free market, more competition and changes and more dynamic markets will increase job formation, money exchanges and such: is it true ? maybe, maybe not, maybe more correctly it is just a very vague, rough approximation of the idea that if people are pushed around a little and forced to keep on always changing and interacting things will move by themselves. As opposed to my idea of large public private projects that will create the jobs from above : is it true ? maybe, maybe not, maybe more correctly it is just a very vague, rough approximation of the idea that if people are given a large scale goal many jobs will be created. The entire idea of innovation is the illusion of trying to use the same success that we had manipulating matter, by projecting that success into a reflection so as to improve society also.<br />
<br />
Free will compensates the random details found in nature, an ensemble of minds all using abstract mental models can only create random details by interacting through free will.<br />
<br />
Funny how the extreme limit of science, the Instant Singularity and modified brains reaches the same conclusion of what natural evolution reached for most living things: that no models or thought processes are necessary at all, the model, the abstraction is a falsification of reality, is a make believe toy, only details and subjectivity exist, only the present flow of interactions are operating.<br />
<br />
Like when you feel pain, all of your models and all your past abstract thoughts seem like a joke, almost as if you want to say, how wrong I was and what a waste of time, the only true reality is Now, Instant, Random, No model only Event and Sensation of Pain/Pleasure.<br />
<br />
Metaphysics is more honest, it says lets just invent models and have fun with them without pretending that they correspond to reality in any way.<br />
<br />
Check out:<br />
<br />
http://212.13.195.254/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145936<br />
<br />
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=93111<br />
<br />
http://74.86.200.109/showthread.php?t=86378<br />
<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:08 pm<br />
In a sense, you don't fight yourself anymore, you don't fight random, events, that which you have no power over anymore, you accept that the world is governed by forces you have no control over, you don't Model it anymore according to some Law or Laws, you just accept it all and deal with them day by day as they come. Since only the history, what happens, the observation is reality, the Models don't work anymore, you can't predict much, you can't force the world to abide to your model, especially you give up fighting or wanting to manipulate other Free Will Gadgets (impossible to manipulate and will always contradict you and even if they don't contradict you, you will contradict yourself, since the Man Brain will force random, quirk, will break the model on purpose, for fun, (maybe unconsciously ?) by itself while fighting desperately to uphold a model that was always false).<br />
<br />
In other words, the conflict is between mental Models, desire of control through such, desire to predict and what actually happens, what actually is, history, the details, the random, etc. And obviously all events that deny your expectations are breaking your models of reality: so you are really just fighting yourself, you are fighting your models (which are mostly false) and reality which is mostly independent and random and keeps on making fun and teasing any model of reality you try to contain in your mind. The conflict is between Theory versus Details, Models versus Events, and this is mostly an internal mental conflict within yourself, why doesn't reality abide to my model (or really my commands ?), and you get mad at reality and others when you should just forget all and any models, rules and laws, expectations, desires, and plans, etc.<br />
<br />
So that is the deal: either you accept anything that happens just because, or you fight anything by trying to impose the world to conform to an impossible and false model from the outset.<br />
<br />
And these models are most models we have: they are the Religious Models, The Scientific Models, the Political and Economic Models, etc.<br />
<br />
And strangely Scientific models perform a positive feedback loop on societies by making people aware of so many different measurements and new scientific facts and making people embrace a given model against other models creating more will power conflicts etc.: as in Atomic Energy is Bad according to some Science, it is good according to some other Science, and the conflicts increase because people have more models to embrace, more belief systems...<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:11 pm<br />
Also From:<br />
<br />
http://212.13.195.254/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145936<br />
<br />
"And in fact atoms do have random details and matter is composed of an infinite number of levels each having random details all the way down to the plank level. Therefore there are no laws of physics and matter is based on nothing. That is why quantum physics is based on chance, "random" probabilities, to reflect this state of things.<br />
<br />
Random details are all those intricate little quirks you see in everything around you, like the stones on a road, the casual tree alignments, cracks and all the quirky patterns of car seats and textiles etc. Look at anything very closely and you will see all kinds of odd details. The beauty of the universe is in those details. Now if these details are no longer present for the atom, then what is left is a perfectly abstract item or should I say a perfectly mathematical item. In fact when we abstract concepts we are IGNORING the details so we can manage them logically and mathematically. So if the atom is a purely mathematical item, it is no longer a material item and hence matter does not even exist. If those details are present for an atom, and I see no reason why they shouldn't be since we are biased towards thinking the atom is just a set of equations, then the quirky odd details go on forever at all levels even at 10^-100000 mm and hence there are really no physical laws at all only approximations and "chaos". So matter is based on nothing anyways.<br />
<br />
On one hand the entire basic assumption of science is that we can simplify reality by ignoring the details and creating logical models. On the other hand, science does investigate exactly the many details that philosophers and artists have often ignored because considered "too low level and not worth the human spirit". But we are simply within a quirk range of size levels where the simplification - ignoring details method of science seems to work, but at the many infinite smaller levels there are no simplifying principles and in fact there may be an infinite increase of complexity and chaos and science would actually be inverted in the sense that the simple is based on the infinitely complex."<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:11 pm<br />
From:<br />
<br />
<br />
http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/1256 ... e-fiction/<br />
<br />
"IF QED (quantum electrodynamics) is not a hoax, then matter truly does not exist and all we have is logic-math. The electron according to QED is an infinite set of interacting virtual particles described and understood only in terms of their feynman diagrams which are nothing more than integrals and series. The center of the electron is a GEOMETRICAL point with no extension etc. Since there are an infinite number of diagrams according to an infinite number of possible interactions and decay modes (electron emits virtual photon that becomes virtual e+e- pair etc.) then matter is truly reduced to pure mathematics.<br />
<br />
If we could control matter at their virtual particle level, we could create an infinite size computer inside an electron by associating and provoking interactions with corresponding feynman diagrams that map one to one with AND and OR circuits, and creating infinitely complex circuits. With an infinite computer we could then simulate any kind of universe governed by any kinds of laws as complex as you wish, since an infinite computer would be unlimited. Hence another simulated universe would be just as real as ours since the building blocks of our own universe is pure math-logic.<br />
<br />
Of course this may not be the case and virtual particles could be made up of something else at the distance of 10^-100 or 10^-1000 . Actually the limits of the observable universe is not how large it can be but how small. What is there at the distance of 10^-100000 ? Alot of room to speculate.<br />
<br />
QED may be a hoax if the sums where made in such a way as to force them to correspond to experimental observables, but I think it is true, you never know though... "<br />
<br />
<br />
and<br />
<br />
<br />
"You can always say there is a phenomena in the case of the NSE (Navier-Stokes) equations for turbulance since a material substrate is always present in the form of a large ensemble of particles upon which the equations are operating. In the case of QED, there is no longer any material substrate, we are at the end of the line. The virtual particle and feynman diagrams are all that is left, a set of numbers (mass, impulse, energy etc.) related to another set through a series of mathematical operations. The description coincides exactly with the material, that is why QED is so precise. If you add the remaining corrective terms, there is no longer any difference between the measurement and the prediction, hence matter no longer exists, it has completely evaporated into equations.<br />
<br />
Physicists ask why this particular set of equations and laws govern our universe. Well in fact any set of equations will do, the set we do have just happens to be an arbitrary starting point. Any other set would be the same. The "virtual particle electron size infinite computer" could then transform our starting point set of equations into any other conceivable set of equations by appropriately configuring it to let the feynman diagrams execute a given set of AND and OR circuits that transform one set of physics laws into another. From here we can have any universe governed by any set of equations, and it would be just as real as ours.<br />
<br />
Bottom line, matter is mathematics, and I think some other physicists have come to a similar conclusion by saying everything is information "IT FROM BIT". The only doubt would be if virtual particles where composed of something else. But you would have to look at distances like 10^-100 to see any fine structure. An interesting thing happens talking about sizes since if you look at the solar system at its size reference the planets are just point like particles executing equations in their motion. But if you go down to the meter size you will see all kinds of complex structure like on earth. If you go smaller you end up again in a very simple world of particles (electrons, protons) executing equations. By continually going to smaller and smaller sizes you go constantly from simple to complex then simple again to complex etc. A bit like looking at traffic from far away, it is mostly a simple process, but if you look at the mm or micron range in the brains of people driving it is very complex. So if virtual particles follow this trend then they may be made of extremely complex fine structure. And then maybe there is no end to small sizes and the cycle of simple to complex to simple at 10^-1000 and then 10^-10000 etc goes on forever.<br />
<br />
If matter is not mathematics, then mathematics is a subset of matter meaning matter-physics has metaphysical elements within it. "<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby Flannel Jesus » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:20 pm<br />
you're just quoting yourself. usually the purpose of quoting somebody is to add credibility to the argument. but just quoting yourself doesn't add credibility to yourself. you are yourself. you're not more credible than yourself.<br />
http://8tracks.com/flanneljesus<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby Tork » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:30 pm<br />
<br />
Flannel Jesus wrote:you're just quoting yourself. usually the purpose of quoting somebody is to add credibility to the argument. but just quoting yourself doesn't add credibility to yourself. you are yourself. you're not more credible than yourself.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Technically addressing yourself through any means is equivalent to adding credibility to yourself.<br />
Hence, quoting a post adds credibility to both the argument, and self representation. You're forced to credit yourself for acknowledging credit to another understanding.<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby Flannel Jesus » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:52 pm<br />
huh? i have no clue what you're saying.<br />
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so, if I come up with theory X, and I post it on one forum, I start out with a certain amount of credibility, but then I go to another forum and I post a link to the previous forum I posted on and quote myself, and I add some credibility, and then I go to another forum and link to the one I just came from and quote myself again, and slowly and slowly I can build up credibility for my ideas just by quoting myself countless times? is that the idea here? Just quote yourself until people believe you?<br />
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Information Relationship<br />
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39 posts • Page 2 of 2 • 12<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby Tork » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:10 pm<br />
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Flannel Jesus wrote:huh? i have no clue what you're saying.<br />
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so, if I come up with theory X, and I post it on one forum, I start out with a certain amount of credibility, but then I go to another forum and I post a link to the previous forum I posted on and quote myself, and I add some credibility, and then I go to another forum and link to the one I just came from and quote myself again, and slowly and slowly I can build up credibility for my ideas just by quoting myself countless times? is that the idea here? Just quote yourself until people believe you?<br />
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The credibility is achieved just as you explained, believe it or not. Really you are looping a resource that my lead to less public credibility, but if done self beneficially, you can trick the play to self credential. Its really just part of the mind.<br />
If you gain from your own doings, did you lose? Yes, is what you're saying.<br />
In this specific case you are right... This topic will not lead to self credibility, and is a ramble, if not pure self admire.<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:39 pm<br />
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Flannel Jesus wrote:you're just quoting yourself. usually the purpose of quoting somebody is to add credibility to the argument. but just quoting yourself doesn't add credibility to yourself. you are yourself. you're not more credible than yourself.<br />
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Ok, OK, I take it all back. I am wrong. I am a loser, a sore loser, I am sorry I have wasted your time, please forgive me, I like to be a jerk ! Please erase all of these kinds of posts from the Internet, Please erase the Internet. Thank You.<br />
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Oh, and by the way:<br />
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From:<br />
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http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/01/murmuration.html<br />
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From:<br />
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viewtopic.php?f=4&t=155045&start=50<br />
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From:<br />
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viewtopic.php?t=145936<br />
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"So atoms are perfect mathematical equations. Matter is mathematics. So a completely simulated universe on a computer is just as real as ours. So reality is base on pure logic-mathematical systems and there are no other "metaphysical" aspects to matter-reality. Well then this reality is completely abstract and senseless, it is just a series of Feynman Integrals describing particle interactions. No, I think this is completely wrong, atoms have cracks on them, just like walls, and the level of details and complexities of the real world is infinite. What is at the center of an electron? what is the world like at 10^-100000000 mm size level ?"<br />
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Atoms are full of wild cracks all over them, they are crazy entities, so much crazy and wild random detail and all of those bozos want to describe them with equations!?!? I can't believe it...<br />
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TOBOR THE 8 MAN<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:58 pm<br />
Another huge logical mistake is when they ask what is the probability of Life or the first cell and things like that: well it doesn't matter what the probability is, It Just Happened. End of Story. There is nothing to explain, a random sequence of events occurred and created the first living cell, and then Man and whatever. But even if it were a one shot creation from nothing, well, there is nothing wrong with that either, It Just Happened, For No Reason at All, Just Because, For Fun.<br />
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And even if it was God who just did it, well who cares ? Anything goes, it is all just a random event, just a wild number picked out of a bag full of wild numbers, there is nothing left to explain, no relationships to discover or invent or uncover, etc.<br />
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This is real science since the simplest explanation is the correct one and no explanation is the correct one and best one. But even if this explanation is wrong, well who cares ? Be Your Own Boss.<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:26 pm<br />
Please scroll past these blocks of texts. Please erase all of my posts from the Internet. Please erase the Internet. Thank you. No Rights Reserved, all of these blocks of text do not belong to anybody since they were not written by anybody; they are machine generated; feel free to pollute the internet by copying them and posting them anywhere, but please DO NOT POLLUTE THE INTERNET ANY FURTHER ! Thank You.<br />
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The Laws of Indentity and Non Contradiction are Impossible<br />
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Uh, oh, here we go again. I know, you will all say but you are using those laws to demonstrate that they are not true: but we always use things as though they were outside of themselves to pretend that they are false, eveything is outside of itself and disjoint, everything is using itself outside of itself to contradict itself and such (add as much confusion as possible, the confusion and vague mode of thought will set you free), everything is the outside looking in and using itself, or better instances of itself as distinct entitites, etc. (and the imporant thing is only if the block of text, the sequeuce of symbols "makes you feel good", as if "you have achieved" and "won", and you force it, just win and feel good, just do it, ignore all the clowns who want to contradict you, they are jealous and envious that you have won and feel good (and we can even just feel good independent of any sequence of symbols, just because, for fun, and then associate that feeling with any sequence and make yourself win and feel better ever more as in pure delusion of self, ever more pure delusion, lie, as in lying to yourself, illusions will set you free, ever more illusions..)).<br />
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If something is always different from other entitites and distinct then nothing could possibly exist because all entities would have to be ever different and not even separate space or points in time could cancel the fact that at least something, somewhere must be pure contradiction acheived, must deny and contradict the laws of identity: if you take the limit of any entity as space and time and any other properties tend towards zero and consider all of its constituent parts as those limits tend to zero, as the constituents become ever more smaller, but always distinct, you would reach a point of the entity simply vanishing since it could not support the rule of identity past a certain point, it would have to be a pure monolithic slab of contradiction and identity denied in order to simply exist, the algortihm and computer program of the law of identity and non contradiction must abruptly end in order for it to even exist, the monolithic slab of pure contradiction would have to be a distinct, disjoint delimited section of existence somewhat analogous to the limits of the observable universe, to a black hole event horizon and such, it would have to be a kind of reference point against which the rest of the ensemble of existing entites would compare themselves in order to exist, it would have to be a point zero in a reference system of reciprocal definitions...<br />
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But this slab of pure contradiction isn't in any point of space or time, isn't anywhere, but exactly for this is everywhere in a sense, of course, the abstractions and denotations continue to be ever harder to comprehend for our puny mind, but the sense of all is pure contradiction, pure non identity, all is the opposite of itself, all is a contradiction of its own existence, the laws of identity and non contradiction are the greatest lie and hoax in history, are totally impossible and crazy. There. I said it.<br />
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Now go on, and say I am wrong, go on and don't make me win, but I win always, I win! I win! there, go away cray babies, I win! I win!<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:03 pm<br />
From:<br />
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http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/01/murmuration.html<br />
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From:<br />
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viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177939&start=25<br />
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So,now that the Laws of Identity and Non Contradiction have been totally refuted, have been finally demonstrated to be false, we can finally solve all of the "Unresolved Internal Conflicts" Reality (and Man Brains, especially) have: we can now invent all and have fun, we can transform reality into what we want it to be, no longer slaves of logic, and fixed circuits, now we are finally free, free your mind, you are free, God has finally set you free.<br />
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THis implies that making things up, saying lies, all kinds of lies is the truth, lies are all true now, you are allowed to SAY THINGS WHICH ARE NOT TRUE BECAUSE YOU HAVE BECOME THE BOSS OF REALITY, YOU HAVE BECOME YOUR OWN BOSS!!!<br />
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PLease, tell me lies, please lets create a new fake reality full of lies, please all lie, lie forever, make it pretty, make it better, I don't care if it is true or false, just lie and make it pretty, pretty please, will you ?<br />
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And Jesus Speaks to Little Children and<br />
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BEWARE OF THE MARK OF THE BEAST<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:48 pm<br />
There is a simpler way to refute and demolish the laws of Identity and Non Contradiction: In order to state them, their opposite must exist, they must be compared to what their reciprocal would state, they must create their own existence by measuring themselves (and being measured by other entities and Other Observers ) against what they would mean if they weren't true. But since all Metaphysical Items and Entities have existence because they are independent of any kinds of constraints, those laws are false.<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:53 pm<br />
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nameta9 wrote:<br />
This is real science since the simplest explanation is the correct one and no explanation is the correct one and best one. But even if this explanation is wrong, well who cares ? Be Your Own Boss.<br />
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So just sh*t on the Internet as much as you want, write anything at all, no matter how wrong, idiotic and insane, just BS forever on the Internet, it is all OK, it is all fine, it is all good...<br />
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Write as many false and wrong ideas as possible, be creative and colorful, go man go, you can do it, just do it....<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:39 am<br />
From:<br />
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http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/01/murmuration.html<br />
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The Laws of Identity and Non Contradiction (should more correctly be named the Principles of Identity and Non Contradiction, since they are the very first principles from which all else is derived from) is in truth a Momentary Lapse of Reasoning "Matter" or "Mass Energy" or more correctly the "Monolithic Slab of Pure Existence as Delimited by Logical Entities" has in order to momentarily observe itself, contradict itself and then vanish again to where it all belongs, namely a place where all contradictions are operating, nothing is identified as distinct from anything else, all is real and fake, and so on, the more absurd and crazy the closer we get to some very remote and vague and indirect approximation of what all of reality is.<br />
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Obviously, the above block of text has absolutely nothing to do with what I wanted to say, it is 100 % unrelated, disjoint and not connected or associated with what I wanted to express...good luck in trying to figure out what I wanted to say...<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby Tork » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:47 pm<br />
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nameta9 wrote:From:<br />
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And Jesus Speaks to Little Children and<br />
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BEWARE OF THE MARK OF THE BEAST<br />
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So sad that you're the only one that is realizing your on to something....<br />
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Love the Diary/Journal.<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:41 pm<br />
Is Reality Physics - Mathematics ?<br />
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The unreasonable precision with which mathematics describes reality has always puzzled physicists. The reason is most likely because the reality described is not really a reality and is much more so a Technology: an invention, mostly a machine, as most of those equations and interactions and experiments and laws have been furnished by how machines and devices interact with some kind of detached reality, a reality that is in essence pretty far away from nature, if with nature you mean the pure random blind forces operating under nature like inside stars (plasmas), the forces modeling the earth (earthquakes, mountain formation), the weather and most of the random natural events that occur like ocean waves and their exact form and design (can you predict them with mathematical precision ?). Of course we know and can apply mathematics to all of such, we know the general forces and such, but the precision is no longer "unreasonable".<br />
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So what scientists do is confuse technology with nature, confuse a mathematical model and description and design of technological machines with nature, as if the technology is nature: but it is not so, technology is a very specifically configured slab of matter that closely follows and abides to mental, linguistic and especially mathematical models: what came first the technological machine and interaction or the mental mathematical model ? Mostly the other way around, the mental mathematical models influenced what kinds of contraptions we would design according to clear cut needs and functions according to how we interact with reality.<br />
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SO in essence, there is no "unreasonable precision" of mathematics to reality, but only a mostly reasonable precision of mathematics to machines that interact with reality and confuses us into thinking that they are reality. Like a particle accelerator: are they simply studying an engineered device or really studying the laws of physics ?<br />
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Matter is set up so as to express mathematical relationships, so as to emphasize mathematical relationships. Our mathematical models are more than anything mostly machines, mental models of machines that are providing us a function and as such easily lend themselves to models and especially mathematical models. Since the functions and operations the machines must provide have been defined and created within a mental model of reality through language, they already, from the outset have properties that imply models and eventually mathematical, precision models, models where you can apply equations and predictions and perfect them accordingly, but because the function is clearly defined and clearly delimited by language and the model and then mathematical models further delimit and perfect them: and then machines are designed and constructed and experimented within a very controlled and predictable environment, no free wills opposing their forces to what the machines must do, no random forces and quirk details messing up models like what happens in most of real natural systems and not modelized and forced systems carving their function out of reality, by force.<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:52 pm<br />
At what point does a technology become a science ? at what point do we confuse a technology with science ? When did computer become "Computer Science" so to say, and is it a Natural Science ? If so then why isn't the game of Chess also simply a Natural Science ? and then why not Soccer or American Football a science ? a real science ? In this respect, we are not the "View from Nowhere" that science supposes it has, we are always the view from somewhere, from someplace, from some cultural or experience reference system, from some language construct, thought construct and memory organization of knowledge implied by a culture, civilization, tribe.<br />
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The discrepancies: the three body problem has no analytical solution (no precise solution in mathematical terms), the differential equations describing mathematical physics have very rarely precise, closed form analytical solutions, initial conditions must be imposed but are always iffy, random, not sure and not precise, non linearities abound, chaotic systems discovered, the butterfly effect ? and mostly look around you, can you give me the equation and precise solution that determined a given design of a given mountain ? can you precisely predict the exact shape of the next waveform of an ocean wave ? can you tell me exactly where the next raindrop will fall ? (but then again nature operates by simply yes and no and some intermediate state, it doesn't need precision, it doesn't care about precision, nature is very approximate, likes to make rough approximations like it will rain today or it will not, it doesn't even know or have within itself the precise capability to know, care or even imagine where the exact next raindrop will fall, it knows it only after the fact, nay, not even after the fact, not even history is true, nay, it doesn't and will never know, nothing will ever know, not even knowing itself knows...). These are all the walls of the reference system science is boxed up in, its perfect mathematical viewpoint breaks down as soon as you exit its reference system: in that case only the interaction and measurement and observation gives you some information, but information that rarely can be built upon to create a prediction as in : Thought is the Sickness, Measurements and Observations are the Cure.<br />
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When I saw the first pictures of the neural circuits in brains, I was amazed by how random, chaotic and non sensical it seemed, since I was used to digital electronics and Microprocessor Schematics. Now, I know that reality has no sense or logic, only that which we impose upon it by our thought, logic and our own schematics.<br />
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So, at what point does a technology become a science ? it is actually Science that is a Technology, in a very subtle way, and we don't notice it, but Science is a Technology: and this is what will be important when we start to directly modify our Mind Brain Design and change the way it works, thinks, its organizations, its sensations, its experiences and such. We will invent a new and real Science, a Science much closer to reality and much more real than anything our Civilization could have even imagined up to now...<br />
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TOBOR THE 8 MAN<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:38 pm<br />
Amplify Random<br />
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Nature alone does create random, quirk, details, fluke details and chaos, turbulence and such. But by creating Free Will Decision Points flung upon the sea of random (through Man Brains and similar structures and Interactors) it can create even more Random it can amplify and create even more hard to predict and patternize details and noise: so many individual and independent logical segments interacting (sometimes ? every now and then ? always etc.?) and colliding, each with their own special mental model or assumed mental model of the world and what their goals are (or sometimes as just an instant reaction in an action reaction circuit ? or sometimes deeply meditated and pondered upon (maybe for years just for one small Decision Point ?)) as in opposition and sometimes as in contribution and accumulation and all the intermediate mixes create a strange mix of random and pattern, strange artificially higher randomized configurations of Matter: as if Matter needs free will decision points to create even more contorted patterns, just look at all the details (cracks on the walls, designs, pebbles on the street, etc.) in buildings in cities as a result of the forces of random and people, etc.<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:13 pm<br />
As an example, all places have the Standard International buildings, boxes, midrises, suburb houses and such. But many cities have a structure where everyplace, every street or corner has a signature, is different from any other street or combination (in same city) as opposed to others that are very monotonous like London. Tokyo or Seoul or Paris have each place and street with a signature, London most places are the same style houses so very few signature.<br />
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Re: Information Relationship<br />
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Postby nameta9 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:57 am<br />
Also, in brainium, if everything is a brain, then there are more brains than information for those brains to process, it is the other way around, there is not enough information for the brains themselves to process, hence they process other brains, and even the information becomes brains, etc. all reciprocal.<br />
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